R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

[DeadeyeJohnny]

To all R5C owners, can you please indicate which CANON EF lenses don't work in video mode, so that we can bring it to the attention of Canon engineers who work on firmware updates, as well as warn fellow users which lenses to stay away from in the time being? I know certain third party lenses have issues, but you would think that Canon would at least support their own lenses, but this doesn't seem to be the case at all.

It would be good to compile a list of which ones aren't recognized by the camera's video menu with the "attached lens will not work" message.

To start:

Canon: 17-35mm 2.8L, 85mm 1.2L

Tokina: 28-70 2.8 ATX

Sigma: 35mm 1.4

Tamron: 24-70mm 2.8 G2, 70-200mm G2, 35mm 1.4

Edit: As pointed out repeatedly by users below, many third party lenses aren't compatible and that's fine, this topic is meant to focus on Canon's incompatible EF glass despite their vague marketing that claims compatibility via the EF-RF adapter (see screenshot, attached). I also peaked at the R5C user guide which does make mention of certain optimal lenses, for PHOTO mode and there's no mention of optimal nor incompatible lenses in the Cine menu which is frustrating because the lenses that aren't working on the R5C in Video, work perfectly fine on the R5 in video, and all other R series bodies (R6, R3 etc...)

 

[shadowsports]

Greetings,

I understand this is a sensitive subject.  I'm not trying to be disrespectful in any way.  

EF17-35 f2.8.  A fantastic lens released in 1996 (27 yrs old)

EF 85 f1.2.  Another oldie but goodie. mkI 1989 (34 yrs old), mkII 2006 (17 yrs old)

The technology that existed 17-34 years ago isn't what it is today.  Unfortunately, this means that some things cannot be adapted to work together.  

3rd party.  I hope you are open to looking at this from a different perspective.  It cannot be Canon's responsibility to ensure compatibility with 3rd party "anything" that they didn't have any say or control in the development or manufacturing of.  I feel this responsibility lays with the companies who make these products.  They should be responsible for ensuring their "stuff" works with Canon.

[DeadeyeJohnny]

I hear ya, I get that they're older model lenses but I don't agree with not supporting them. 

I'm still shooting film, on cameras that came out in the 70's, with lenses that are 40-50 years old, I think for me the issue is that Canon promotes the EF-RF adapter as "a way to keep using your EF glass" on mirrorless bodies but as we users transition to the mirrorless systems, we're learning that it's not entirely true and it feels like they're phasing out their EF line by making the conscious decision to not support their own, older lenses. I guess in some ways it's a familiar story as they made the EF mount knowing people wouldn't really be able to use FD lenses (although now, 30 years later Simmod makes this possible). But I guess I was hoping they had changed their tune. 

The fact that I can still use a 50 yr old lens adapted to my R5C is incredible, but the fact I can't use my 27 year old lens because Canon didn't feel like adding one line of code into a program, really sucks. 

[Waddizzle]

“ It would be good to compile a list of which ones aren't recognized by the camera's video menu with the "attached lens will not work" message. “

“ The fact that I can still use a 50 yr old lens adapted to my R5C is incredible, but the fact I can't use my 27 year old lens because Canon didn't feel like adding one line of code into a program, really sucks. “

” I hear ya, I get that they're older model lenses but I don't agree with not supporting them. “

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Let me begin by saying it is not an issue of whether or not you agree.  The issue is whether or not you understand how the gear works and why much of it not FULLY compatible.

I have not downloaded a copy of the User Guide for the R5C, but I seem to recall that there is a list of compatible lenses in the User Guide for the R5.  I do not recall the exact compatibility for which the list was created, but I believe it was related to video.  I suggest that you check your R5C User Guide to see if it includes a similar list.

Could you please define what exactly “don’t work” means?  What is the exact error message, if any, that you are getting?  What is leading you to conclude that your lenses “don’t work.”

Canon does not support third party lenses, so there is no point in continuing that line of conversation.  The majority of the problems with the older Canon lenses are related to physical issues, not firmware issues.

One problem with the older EF lenses is that most were not designed for video.  Many have loud and noisy apertures.  The mirror slap and shutter click of a DSLR typically masks it.  The apertures may not change smoothly from one setting to another.  Instead, the lens will “jump” to the next aperture setting, which imitates what an aperture ring on a photo-centric lens would do.  Cinema lenses tend have “declicked” aperture rings for smooth transitions and “fade to black” shots.

This brings us to the actual EOS, electronic optical system, firmware in the Canon lenses.  Most 50 year old lenses do not communicate with the camera, so I fail to see your point.  Why bring it up?

Canon first introduced Dual Pixel AF image sensors around 2009.  I do not know the technical details behind the necessary changes to the lenses, but Canon released updated versions of their entire L series lineup of lenses. 

On the mainstream consumer oriented side, Canon released STM zooms that were specifically designed to take advantage of the Movie Servo AF features that were made available by the use of the Dual Pixel AF image sensors.  

The STM lenses were much quieter, so less noise was picked up by the built-in microphones.  Their apertures made smooth transitions from one setting to the next, instead of “jumping” to the next setting like so many of the USM lenses would do.

BTW; it must be pointed out that Canon support for most of the older lenses ended long ago.

[Waddizzle]

One final difference that needs to be pointed out.  There is a major difference between lenses created for film cameras and today’s “digital lenses” created for digital cameras.

The biggest difference has to do with the anti-reflective lens coatings on the internal lens elements.  Unlike film, a digital image sensor can reflect light back up and into the lens body.  This reflected light often results in “ghosting” or cloudy looking smears in the captured images.  

Digital cameras were slowly introduced across multiple brands over a multi-year period centered around the year 2000, more or less.  Canon released digital versions of many of their lenses that did not already have anti-reflective coatings on the internal elements.

[DeadeyeJohnny]

Thanks for your input Wadizzle, however I ask that this thread should be reserved for users to list lenses that are not compatible with the R5C's video mode.

I didn't start this thread to discuss the limitations behind Canon EF support or debate why you and one other individual on this forum think its "okay" for Canon to drop support for legacy glass. I get why from a economic perspective, but there are some truly unique and amazing legacy EF lenses that have wonderful characteristics for filmmakers and photographers alike (despite today's higher res sensors) so I'll still stubbornly debate why their older glass should at LEAST be recognized by the camera and not have their use blocked entirely (if I want to deal with a loud, grinding AF motor that should be my choice as the individual who paid for the lens and wants to use it, just because there's something newer out, doesn't mean its the tool I want to use -but we can continue that discussion on another thread if you'd like to. 

Having said all that, this thread is to help other R5C users avoid making an uninformed lens purchase, or to help owners of older EF glass know to stay away from the R5C unless they're willing to liquidate their certain lenses. 

[Waddizzle]

“. Thanks for your input Wadizzle, however I ask that this thread should be reserved for users to list lenses that are not compatible with the R5C's video mode.  “

I see.  Thanks for the clarification.

Is the glass half empty or is the glass half full?  If you are given a list of compatible lenses, then it is probably safe to assume that any lens that is not on the list is probably not fully compatible.  I am going to confidently say that the list of lenses that you seek does not exist.  As has already been pointed out to you, Canon does not document or claim compatibility with third party gear.

If you wish to know if your third party lenses are compatible, then I suggest that you contact the third party lens manufacturers.  Let them explain whether their lenses are fully compatible.  And if not, then why not.

I would expect them to claim full compatibility, BTW.  Since you have not answered my questions, I will adhere to your request and exit this thread.

Have a nice day.

[deebatman316]

As @Waddizzle pointed out. Older lenses lack the necessary hardware. To be fully compatible with Movie Servo AF. Older AFD (Arc Form Drive), Micro Motor & Micro Motor USM lenses. Lack support for it because cameras at the time could NOT record video. Also Arc Form Drive lenses work differently when it comes to AF and Aperture control. The way those lenses work is. The camera focuses the lens then stops down to the selected aperture. The FPS on an SLR, DSLR or mirrorless camera is only about 3-4 fps in Servo AF. Due to the design of the lens. Newer lenses focus and stop down the aperture simultaneously. Also these early lenses are classified as F/8 lenses when it comes to DPAF. Even though the apertures are wider than F/8. Only certain AF points can be used. Canon discontinued new lens designs with AFD in 1992. AFD was Canon's first AF motor in 1987. It was also the shortest lived. With the advent of Micro Motor released in 1993. Existing lenses with AFD would be continue to be manufactured. 

[Jsilj]

Waddizzle brings up a good point generally speaking on the chip kicking back more light than emulsion and is a consideration when dealing with older lenses but older lenses do have a unique look and are constantly being rehoused for use and not just for budget reasons. That however is a choice for the photographer or the cinematographer. To Waddizle other points auto iris and auto focus regarding sound and technical short falls, they really are not issues. For one the iris and auto focus aren't that loud even on the older lenses. Iris also rarely changes in shot. Every once in a while there will be an iris pull if you are going from interior to exterior but generally speaking that's it and it's rare you would do that in a oner.  Most of the time its on a cut. So you show me an interior or exterior that can't be shot without an iris pull and I'll show you some one who can't light. To the auto focus on EOS cinema cameras again not really an issue. You are in usually one of 2 scenarios. 1 you are doing live or ENG broadcast stuff in which case you are pulling focus yourself by eye. I hate that. Or 2 you are in a scripted usually narrative environment in which case you have a camera assistant who pulls focus for you on a fallow focus. Now this is tough for a focus puller on these style lenses because the barrel is small and the throw is only about 2 inches from minimum to infinity. This is the biggest and most important difference between cinema lenses and photo lenses, a big barrel with lots of throw so the focus puller can nail it. But this is the problem with all photo lenses, my 17-35 and my IS3 70-200 which works fine with the adapter. What ever reason Canon had for not allowing the 17-35 compatibility in just video mode it is unlikely it had anything to do with auto focus or auto iris and probably didn't have anything to do with the sensor kicking back light either. Canon has a half ways decent video/cinema line, like the C300, above and beyond the R5C and they know how these tools get used.

To Deadeye Jonny's point I agree a list of compatible lenses or non compatible lenses should be handed out with the camera. As of now I only see compatible with EF lenses in literature which there is at least one that is not. I did try and find a list after I put on my 17-35 but on dice and it definitely wasn't in the literature with the camera.

New to the forum I guess we let everyone know what cameras we have.

AE1 Program, Eos 3, R5C a lot of lenses EF mount, FD mount and PL mount.

Retiring: 7D

Retired: XTi

[Waddizzle]

“ To Deadeye Jonny's point I agree a list of compatible lenses or non compatible lenses should be handed out with the camera. “

Try reading the camera’s User Guide.  There is a list of compatible Canon EF lenses in the manuals for the R5c R6, and every other R series body.  The lists are identical.

His complaint is that there should be list of lenses that are NOT compatible, too.