No 3rd party RF Lenses...

[greeneyes_516]

This is a Deal Breaker for me. I am still using DSLR and it will still be a little while before I get a mirrorless camera because of budget. This news is going to make me look into getting Nikon or Sony, if when I go to a mirrorless camera, if I can't get 3rd party RF lenses for Canon. Since the beginning, I have been using Canon. From my first 35mm Film camera, then stepped up to DSLR with the Canon Rebel XTI. Few years later got the Canon 60D and then got the Canon 80D. When I got the 80D, I started to try to get better lenses. So I do have the Canon 24-70 L and got the Tamron 70-210 F4, I also have 2 Sigma lenses. I am on a limited budget. I finally stepped up to Full Frame with the Canon 6D Mark II. I will say that I am happy with all the photos that I have been able to get with my cameras over the years, but I am not a Fan Boy. For a matter of fact, I have recommended a friend to get a Nikon camera, because of what they were wanting to use it for and to stay with in their budget. I have used friends Nikon cameras in the past and was totally happy with those cameras. When people ask for a recommendation on a camera, I just tell them to stay with a Major brand so they have options in the future for expanding their equipment. In the future I will get a mirrorless camera and to start off with, I was going adapt my current lens to the Camera. But will be wanting to get mirrorless lenses when money allows. There is no way I can afford to get any L series Canon RF lenses, so this will be a deal breaker for me. This will make me sell off my Canon equipment, and go with Nikon or Sony, depending on which one has the options that I want at my price. A sad day for Canon.

[amfoto1]

Canon offers 29 autofocus lenses for their RF-mount cameras. Two are RF-S lenses, specifically for their new APS-C format cameras. Reportedly Canon is discouraging 3rd party manufacturers from making and selling AF lenses. Viltrox has confirmed receipt of a cease and desist letter and the same was issued to Yongnuo or Samyang/Rokinon earlier. 

Nikon has 27 autofocus lenses for their Z-mount cameras. Three of those are DX lenses specifically for their APS-C cameras. Based on this information you might say that Canon leads Nikon when it comes to lenses and system development. However, Nikon is allowing 3rd party manufacturers to produce AF lenses for the Z-mount. As a result, there are currently 37 AF lenses for the Nikon system. Viltrox alone has introduced eight. And, of those four primes are specifically for Nikon's APS-C format cameras.... something Canon R;7 and R10 buyers might really appreciate right now!

Sony has been building their mirrorless E-mount system a lot longer than either Canon or Nikon, so they have a clear lead with 63 AF lenses already (41 full frame, 22 crop only). But they started out way, way behind both Nikon and Canon back in 2006 when they bought the Konica-Minolta system. Welcoming 3rd party manufacturers to build for the E-mount means an additional 109 lenses from nine different makes that buyers can choose among, for use on their Alpha camera (88 full frame lenses, 21 APS-C). One might  argue that this open platform approach is also part of how Sony has grown from one of the smallest camera makers into the second largest in just over 15 years.

All these numbers are what they are. I've made a few comments, but you interpret them as you see fit.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

B&H Photo is the source of all the above numbers (their search tool is handy for this sort of thing).   

***********

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7DII (x2), 7D(x2) some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & ZENFOLIO 

[Tronhard]

Hi Alan:

While your comments are valid as far as they go, and I accept your stats, the consideration that is missing is that those two lens makers got cease and desist for breaking a patent held by Canon, which is illegal and creating lenses that were punitive to Canon in terms of right of production and damage to their reputation.   I hope no-one would see that as anything but justice, and the commercial legal system in action.  

All that said, the question is if, and when, 3rd party makers, such as Sigma or Tamron, will be able to announce that they are making 3rd party lenses.  Given the long-term relationships between these makers and Canon, I would not be surprised if they are doing the technical work to create new RF versions of their lenses, but will not be able to bring them to market until they get a release from Canon.  Given that Canon have still quite a few lenses to release on their road map, that may be a while yet, but the panic that has gripped the market, inflamed by click-bait publications, is not helping anyone.

[picturethiskc]

you keep referencing click bait posts, but I don't read all that stuff. My observation is that I can't afford the good RF lenses and the cheaper ones are cheap, low quality. I also observe that I am unable to buy third party lenses and I assume what you say is true about the patent infringement, however in the long run it is going to cause a lot of canon shooters to jump ship on canon and go to a brand where they can afford to buy lenses for the camera that they shoot with. while canon may very well be within their rights to block the third party at this time, my dad always said "don't cut off your nose to spite your face." It is past time for canon to a) communicate with their customers and let them know when they can expect something and B) allow third party lenses to be sold. I will only help build their brand going forward.

[deebatman316]

Since Canon holds the patents to the RF Mount. Canon can go after 3rd parties who violate patent laws unless they were given permission from Canon to make RF Mount lenses and adapters. 3rd parties may make RF mount lenses in the future just not right now. 

-Demetrius

40D, 5D IV, EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II, EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM, EF 50 F/1.8 STM

430EX III-RT, 600EX II-RT

[Tronhard]

My legal friend offered another perspective on this whole cease and desist issue.  It may be that these manufacturers have already got a licensing agreement with Canon, but violated that by releasing their lenses too early and everyone is 'keeping stum' about it.   This would make sense on a couple of fronts: first that the lenses worked to some level as RF mount units, and Canon may be evolving the firmware as they go - for example to deal with the RF-S mount, and don't want pre-emptive releases creating compatibility issues.

If that was the case it offers hope that the 3rd party makers are also evolving their lenses for the new mount, but are following the rules of engagement and waiting for a final release to do so.

[deebatman316]

There were compatibility issues with older 3rd party EOS film lenses. On new digital EOS bodies and Canon's last few 35mm bodies EOS Elan 7N/ 7NE (North America)/ EOS 30V/ 33V (EU) EOS 7s (Japan Only). Also the Rebel T2 (North America) / EOS 300X (EU)/ EOS Kiss 7 (Japan Only). These lenses would cause the camera to throw an error code. They drew too much power to stop down the aperture in the lens.

-Demetrius

40D, 5D IV, EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II, EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM, EF 50 F/1.8 STM

430EX III-RT, 600EX II-RT

[Tronhard]

This is interesting! Can you please provide a reference link to your source for this information? 

I am using the following information from Canon's own support site AT THIS LINK 

[deebatman316]

It was mentioned on this forum. Sigma could rechip the lenses at that time but not anymore. This only applied to 3rd party lenses not first party Canon lenses. Click Here 

-Demetrius

40D, 5D IV, EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II, EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM, EF 50 F/1.8 STM

430EX III-RT, 600EX II-RT

[Tronhard]

Yes, but we come back to the issue of 3rd party vs Canon Native lenses.  Canon guarantee that their native lenses work with their new mounts, not 3rd party lenses.  Given that these 3rd Party Sigma lenses were created at a time when the company was not at the level of quality it has been since it was taken over by Kazuto Yamaki from his father (who founded Sigma), when he really set the quality control to a new level, thus making Sigma a premier 3rd party supplier to the camera makers. 

As an aside, I strongly recommend the video of an interview with him at his new facilities: HERE - he seems to be an awesome guy and has a great ethic for his product and his employees.  It is interesting to note that one of the reason for his major facility expansion was the hiring of significant numbers of engineers " for the new camera mounts".  There are only two new mounts at present: Canon and Nikon, so that suggests to me he has intentions of engaging with Canon to a level of confidence that supports this investment.

These lenses your refer to are very early EOS EF mounts, likely to a tiny percentage of lenses around, and they can be re-chipped for those who really want to use them, I wonder how many people will actually be impacted by this? 

Most of my legacy lenses are Canon ones, some dating back to the mid 90's, I think one going back to the first couple of years of the EF mount.  I do not consider the optics of such older lenses necessarily up to the level of performance of the newer EF and RF units as the new sensors and firmware will show more optical blemishes than before. That is one (of several reasons) I am happy to keep older camera bodies that suit these lenses.

[deebatman316]

That is why I choose to buy Canon's EF L glass to guarantee compatibility if I moved to Canon FF. When I upgraded to the 5D Mark IV I didn't have to worry compatibility issues. Unlike when I tried to use my old Sigma lens on the 90D it didn't work but all of my first party Canon lenses did. 

-Demetrius

40D, 5D IV, EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II, EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM, EF 50 F/1.8 STM

430EX III-RT, 600EX II-RT