How much better is the 24-70 f2.8L over the 24-105 f4L?

[fexaac]

Ive had the 24-105 for about a year and i mostly love it, but ive had a bunch of times where i feel like my shots were less than ideal because of a lack of sharpness. Im considering trading it in for a used 24-70 and some cash on top, if the upgrade is meaningful.

[shadowsports]

Greetings ,

Here is a short series I took with the RF 24-70 f2.8.

https://community.usa.canon.com/t5/Share-Your-Photos/Pumpkin-Patch-Bakersfield-CA/m-p/442507#M3719

The only comparisons between the two I've ever made were online.  Many feel that the RF 24-70 remains sharper out to the corners.  Here's one other.

https://community.usa.canon.com/t5/Share-Your-Photos/Amsterdam-amp-Kinderdijk/m-p/413280#M3185

The 24-70 was the first RF lens I purchased when I moved to mirrorless.  It's proven itself time and time again.  One of the most significant reasons for its purchase was its extra stop light over the f4.  This is especially helpful if you're moving between outdoor and indoor venues.  You also get a little more melt away and separation between your subject and background.

https://community.usa.canon.com/t5/Share-Your-Photos/Germany-Secret-Location/m-p/413282#M3186

If you were going to buy used, please be sure that you're buying from a reputable source.  One that offers a warranty and the right to return.  

[ebiggs1]

"How much better is the 24-70 f2.8L over the 24-105 f4L?"

Not much, is it enough to make a difference? Only you can answer that question. Is it enough to lose the 71mm to 105mm to you? A shot got is always sharper than a shot not.

[March411]

I always buy the fastest lens I can within my budget for several of the reason Rick mentioned in his post. Indoors (generally low light overall) f4 is going to produce more noise than 2.8. You are going to achieve better bokeh @ 2.8 and that holds true with any faster lens, even one stop.

Right now you can grab a RF24-105mm F2.8 L IS USM  on the refurbished site for $2700 and have the best in both lenses. The price of the RF24-70mm F2.8 L IS USM is $2400 so if you can swing the additional $300 the RF24-105mm F2.8 would be sweet.

I love my RF24-70mm F2.8 L IS USM but at some point I may rent the RF24-105mm F2.8 to see if it is worth the trade up to the longer focal length.

Great shots by the way Rick!

[ebiggs1]

"...  f4 is going to produce more noise than 2.8. "

Surely you jest!

"You are going to achieve better bokeh @ 2.8 and that holds true with any faster lens, even one stop."

A few simple clicks in Photoshop. Look one stop is not that big of a deal. It just isn't

"I always buy the fastest lens I can ..."

I do too but the fact it is one stop faster is not the top reason. Generally the faster lens is the better lens. May not be that important to everybody and may not even be true with all lenses made by Canon but I believe it is so with these two we are discussing.

And, yes I have owned both.

[March411]

"Surely you jest!"

Nope, with all my MILC I can watch my ISO increase or decrease as I change aperture, possibly shutter speed and it does factually impact noise. The higher the ISO the higher the noise, you couldn't possibly argue that point can you Ernie? 

"A few simple clicks in Photoshop. Look one stop is not that big of a deal."

Ernie if you desire to add additional steps into your post production workflow long term then that is your decision. I prefer to purchase the right tool for the job and for that tool to give me long term satisfaction. It's always satisfying to get a good result right out of the camera whenever possible. To each their own, I like to try to get it right the first time and will always make that recommendation to others.   

[ebiggs1]

" I prefer to purchase the right tool for the job and for that tool to give me long term satisfaction."

So do I, that's why I have Photoshop. The best photographers in the world that are producing the greatest photos we all love to see and enjoy use Photoshop. Great photos are made in post not in the camera. Since you don't use a good post editor you don't even get the advantage of lens correction. That alone is reason enough to use an editor.

DPP4 being free is another one.

"...all my MILC I can watch my ISO increase or decrease as I change aperture, ..." "The higher the ISO the higher the noise, you couldn't possibly argue that point can you Ernie?"

In this case, yes, I can. The question was does one stop from f2.8 to f4 make a big enough difference to warrant buying it for that sole reason. That answer is still, no, it is not. Going from f4 down to f2.8 may not change the ISO at all. It may simply increase the SS by one stop. The noise concern would not be an issue if there ever was one. There are many specs to a camera and situations with photos and this f2.8 vs f4 is a  minor one. Can you dig and find a case where it did make or break the shot, perhaps you can but by far and away it will not.

[March411]

“Great photos are made in post not in the camera.”

Wow, Of all the things I have read, that you have written that is one of the most outlandish to date. Great photos start in the camera, that is why educators and mentors alike teach the rule of thirds, exposure triangle, and composition (and much more). This all occurs long before you even begin conversations on post. You have heard of the expression garbage in, garbage out.

“Since you don't use a good post editor you don't even get the advantage of lens correction.”

As your continued standard you again make statements that are inaccurate and with basis or knowledge. I use them for post production corrections. But always attempt to produce quality images out of the cameras. And DPP is a great tool for holding photographers accountable for their focus points. I review all my images to assess my hit rate but post happens in Adobe Suite. I guess some people must just have a different standard for quality.

“In this case, yes, I can. The question was does one stop from f2.8 to f4 make a big enough difference to warrant buying it for that sole reason. That answer is still, no, it is not. Going from f4 down to f2.8 may not change the ISO at all. It may simply increase the SS by one stop. The noise concern would not be an issue if there ever was one. There are many specs to a camera and situations with photos and this f2.8 vs f4 is a minor one. Can you dig and find a case where it did make or break the shot, perhaps you can but by far and away it will not.”

I do not need to find a case for you there are perfect examples right (recent threads) here where high ISO caused a lack of sharpness of the subject due compensation in post.

The one stop difference in sports or wildlife photography could, or most likely will impact ISO. If you are shooting in low light environments, action and can not adjust your shutter speed it can have significant impact on both noise and DR. If you are shooting sports @ f2.8, 1/2000 and ISO 6400 and need to push to f4 but maintain your shutter speed you ISO will be 12800, one stop. That is when things start to get a little rough even with MILC. Then in post, you run denoise, possibly sharpen and then maybe some adjustments for exposure and recapturing DR.

The faster lens will give you the ability to produce sharper images, beautiful Bokeh’s and save countless hours fixing poor quality images in post due to noise and lost DR. Sports Photographer, Photojournalist’s, and many Professionals…. take you pick Ernie. You can find many published articles on the topic and google is your friend. Being honest, there are times when I am in an environment where I have no choice but to compromise my exposure due to low light. I want the image and know that I may be able to fix it in post but it is not a couple clicks if you are looking for quality. 

[ebiggs1]

Repeat

"Can you dig and find a case where it did make or break the shot, perhaps you can but by far and away it will not.”

You need to invest in a comprehensive course in Photoshop.

[March411]

You are the best Ernie, you can't make valid points, frequently make statements without basis, attack and mis-quote people. But I will hand it to you, you are consistent.

Interesting thread, perspective but the topic remains the same: Debating between f2.8 and f4 version of 70-200 RF 

"You need to invest in a comprehensive course in Photoshop."

And you may want to heed your own advice, you don't push any buttons in Photoshop, the entire suite, all three applications use sliders for adjustments.