Canon Community

Decrepid · ‎12-10-2018

I have an opportunity to obtain an EOS ds1 8mp, and I'm wondering how that full sensor with few megapixels would compare to my new Canon T6 with, I think.24.

Thinking this through further, I use my T6 and an older T5 for work that is used mainly in PowerPoints but also in gardening publications. I don't consider myself a professional, per se, but I do take nice compositions that are seen by many. How noticeable a difference would I get by upgrading to a Canon with a full sized sensor. If significant, what model(s) would that be and what is the starting price point?

I'm new to this forum. I'm certainly hoping to benefit from your knowlede. Thanks!

Waddizzle · ‎12-10-2018

@Decrepid wrote:
I have an opportunity to obtain an EOS ds1 8mp, and I'm wondering how that full sensor with few megapixels would compare to my new Canon T6 with, I think.24.

Thinking this through further, I use my T6 and an older T5 for work that is used mainly in PowerPoints but also in gardening publications. I don't consider myself a professional, per se, but I do take nice compositions that are seen by many. How noticeable a difference would I get by upgrading to a Canon with a full sized sensor. If significant, what model(s) would that be and what is the starting price point?

I'm new to this forum. I'm certainly hoping to benefit from your knowlede. Thanks!

Not sure which camera you are looking at, but it makes no difference. The older cameras do not always work well with today’s laptops and PCs because of the outdated computer ports some of them use. You may also find it difficult to find a proper memory card for the older cameras, too. Do research into these areas.

The only two older 1D Series bodies that I would consider today would be the EOS-1D Mark IV or the EOS-1Ds Mark III. I would not consider any bodies older than those. Given a choice of those two bodies, i would definitely pick the EOS-1D Mark IV, because of its’ faster FPS and wider ISO range, even despite it having the lower resolution.

A good entry level, full frame camera is the EOS 6D, which has been replaced by the EOS 6D Mark II. Look at the Canon Online Refurbished Store for the best deals on either of those models.

The 5D Series is also a full frame model. The latest model is the 5D Mark IV. You can find used models of its’ predecessors. I would not recommend a used 5D Mark II, as it is almost comparable to a new 6D, while they last, for nearly the same price point. I do recommend the EOS 5D Mark III.

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So, what do you gain using a camera with a full size sensor? It depends.

The advantage of full frame sensors are the size of the photosites on the image sensor. A photosite is one pixel imaging sensor. An image sensor is covered with millions of photosites. For given megapixel specification, a full frame image sensor will tend to have significantly larger photosites than an APS-C image sensor, which is roughly half the size.

The diameter of the photosites is what makes the difference. Let me compare the image sensor to a muffin baking tin, except imagine that this muffin tin is covered with millions of “cups”, or photosites. If I look at the size of the cups on a 6 cup APS-C sized muffin tin, compared a 6 cup full sized muffin tin, the full sized muffins are jumbos compared to the APS-C size tin. The jumbo cups are wider and deeper! Why is this important?

Let me compare light falling onto the image sensor to rain failing onto the muffin tin. I can control how much rain, or light, falls on the muffin tin by opening up, or closing down the aperture, or the big hole in my roof that lets the rain come into the house. I can also control how rain falls on the muffin tin by controlling my shutter, or how long I allow the hole in the roof to allow rain to fall into my house. Why is this important?

The more rain, or light, that I can collect, then the more detail and dynamic range that I will have in my image. Suppose I set my hole in the roof so that the muffin tin can collect one half an inch of rain water. The WIDER muffin cup will collect more water than the smaller muffin cup! How much water I collect is comparable to how much light a photosite can collect during an exposure.

If I collect one half inch of rain, suppose the small muffin cup collects 10 ml of water, and the jumbo collects 15ml of water. When I try to empty out the water, 1 ml of water gets lets behind. This remnant of water is the noise floor. If I do not collect at least a couple of ml water, then I basically collect nothing. My image will be all noise.

Look at the difference between the sensors. For a given exposure to rain water, 1/10 of the water collected by the APS-C muffin tin was noise, while only 1/15 of the water collected by the full size, jumbo muffin tin was noise. And, the jumbo tin collected more rain, or light. Collecting more light means higher contrast between light and dark areas of an image.

But, there is a catch. How much of the collected light become noise is directly related to the ISO setting. In other words, when I dump out the water from my muffin tins, the percentage of water that gets left behind depends on the ISO setting. Lower ISO means less water left behind which means less noise in the image. In my example, I said 1 ml of water gets left behind, so lets call that ISO 800.

At ISO 100, I may only have 0.1 ml of wasted water left behind in the muffin cup. This means that the APS-C muffin tin would have 0.1/10, or 1/100 noise rating. Meanwhile, the jumbo muffin cup will have 0.1/15, or 1/150 noise rating. Guess what? My eyeball cannot notice a difference once noise drops below 1/50. Why is this important?

At most ISO settings between ISO 100 and ISO 800, you eye will not notice a difference between an image from an APS-C sensor and an image from a full frame sensor. From ISO 1600 and up, though, people with sharp eyes may notice a difference, and the difference becomes easier to spot as the ISO continues to rise. Most of my shots are captured with ISO set to less than 800.

So, why is all of that important? The lenses needed for each type of sensor.

An APS-C sensor is smaller than a full frame sensor. This allows manufacturers to build smaller, less expensive lenses, which will have focal lengths similar to the bigger, larger, more expensive lenses needed for full frame sensors. But, the larger lenses tend to be higher quality. If you use a high quality lens on an APS-C sensor, you wil tend to get high quality results comparable to the results you would get from a full frame sensor.

And, that is the layman’s explanation of the difference between an APS-C sensor and a ful frame sensor.

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"Fooling computers since 1972."

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kvbarkley · ‎12-10-2018

Can you give us the exact model number? The original 1ds was 11 MP.

Personally, I think you are fine where you are.

cicopo · ‎12-10-2018

The 1D2 and 1D2n are both 8.2 Mpixel bodies & 1.3 crop factor. They were aimed at the sports side of things with a fast AF & high FPS rate. Very desirable in their day but very low in value these days. I still have & use my 1D2n at certain events to allow having one more lens option available quickly.

"A skill is developed through constant practice with a passion to improve, not bought."

kvbarkley · ‎12-10-2018

Except he specifically says "ds", and strongly implies that it is full frame.

cicopo · ‎12-10-2018

He says 2 things & I answered one. Whether it answers his question or not it should help with one side of it. I did own a 1Ds a long time ago & wouldn't recommend 1 to anyone these days nor a 1D.

"A skill is developed through constant practice with a passion to improve, not bought."

Waddizzle · ‎12-10-2018