Canon 18-200mm zoom lense

[jazzman1]

I'm new here.  I have a Canon T3i.  Two kit lenses came with it in a bundle...18-55mm, 55-250mm.  I am considering getting the Canon 18-200mm.  Would the Canon 18-200mm be a good choice to replace both lenses, or are there better choices to replace them with and keep the 18-200mm also?

[ebiggs1]

"Since I've used Canon gear most of my life, ..."

Well my situation is somewhat different.  I worked for a company that only used Nikon.  Over the years, I have used almost every manufacture made.  I still own two Nikon cameras and several Nikkor lenses.  Love them.

I tell it like it is, no puches held back, but I freely admit I tend to be Canon more than any other brand.  Some of that comes from feel.  They just feel better in your hand.  Some of it comes from how Canon designs their gears. Some comes from it is just better stuff.  Etc....

Everybody is different.  I have die hard Nikon friends and they do well.  Very well, indeed.  They are, Brand-N, very good cameras as a matter of fact the best camera made, today as of 3/23/2015, is the D4/D4s Nikons.  IMHO, they are let down somewhat by their lens lineup.  Also, IMHO, the best buy in a pro body is the EOS 1Dx along with the best lens line up in the world.

And, IMHO, no other company makes a pro level quality camera body.  Period, none!  None I would consider using professionally in a business.

A word about your video, I will be of no help and little help anyway but no help at all in video.  I am a stills shooter, always have been and always will.

[jazzman1]

Hey biggs, hope I can call you that.  1st off what's "IMHO"???  What is brand "N"???    You've mentioned letters before I did'nt know what they meant.    The EOS 1Dx I you mention I assume is a Canon.  Your comments are confusing about Canon/Nikon to me, sorry.  Not sure which you think best, nor what pro quality body you are referring to.  Can you clarify your statements!!!!

I suppose I favor canon gear because I've used them most of my life and am comfortable with Canon gear.  As you say, they seem to be designed just the way I like my gear, and I'm very comfortable with my gear.  They do irk me at times with design change, or not changing some designs...like putting "mini" hotshoe plates on their "prosumer" camcorders.  Standard hot shoe acc will not fit from brands other than Canon who make acc for them, with "mini hotshoes".  But they do make "standard" full size hot shoes plates, for their consumer gear....go figure?????    I had to get a mini hot shoe adapter to use standard size hot shoe acc.  And sometimes they lag behind other brands on updates and acc, and added features.  They seem to coast at times from their loft at the top, and will rely on riding on their name/rep.  Some of their design and features makes no sense nor rhrym or reason to me.  But, I guess as a consumer I still like their gear best overall.  You and Bob know more about it all from a professional/business point of view.  I wonder what Bob's opinion is on this.  Don't know what gear he favors. 

One reason my growth with my T3i has not been faster is I've been working alot with my camcorder.  I had been learning editing and working with my video's mostly until I came here.  I don't need much help with my camcorder.  My problem is with DSLR at the moment.

I have a few friends that favor Nikon, and many I know have Nikon point and shoot.  I don't have any issue with that, I think everyone should use what they like.  I think at times there's way too much discussion (other places not here) over which brand is best and we'd all be better served to just help folks get the best results with whatever the gear they choose.  I do read reviews and tests and use them as a guide, but my final choice will be what I like and feel is the best gear for me.  I think many reviews are biased.  I do like this site best now because everyone talks  mostly Canon gear.  That seems to be what most here have.

I know you teach photography now, but what field/position were you in before you retired?  Just wondering how you attained your knowledge of photography.

The group split up after we went in the zoo yesterday.  Everyone took off their own way.  I did'nt get the chance to talk much shop.  I did get alot of pics and video and really enjoyed the outing.

[RobertTheFat]

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@jazzman1 wrote:

Hey biggs, hope I can call you that.  1st off what's "IMHO"???  What is brand "N"???    You've mentioned letters before I did'nt know what they meant.    The EOS 1Dx I you mention I assume is a Canon.  Your comments are confusing about Canon/Nikon to me, sorry.  Not sure which you think best, nor what pro quality body you are referring to.  Can you clarify your statements!!!!

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I'm not Ernie Biggs, but I know the answers to your first two questions.

IMHO = "In My Humble Opinion"

"Brand N" is Nippoŋ Koŋaku ("Japan Optical"), often abbreviated as "Nikon".

[ebiggs1]

Thanks Bob from Boston for clearing up the acronyms for me.  

"I do like this site best now because everyone talks  mostly Canon gear.  That seems to be what most here have."

This is little wonder since this is a Canon sponsored web site.  It is intended for Canon users in the USA. 

There is no doubt I prefer the Canon brand all the way.  I used Canon gears when Hallmark used Nikon.  But that said I will not pull punches and I tell you exactly what I have seen in my own experience.  Granted I have a very limited supply of equipment ot judge by, but I assume it is representive.  From this experience I have formed my opinions.  I rerad reviews and some are good.  But most of my judgements are my own.  That is probably why some folks think I am nuts!

I worked in the Graphic Arts Division of Hallmark Card in Kansas City for 40 years.  I taught severla calsses in Graphic Arts while there and trained many people.  I have a DSLR 101 class that has gone largely static lately as I have just gotten too busy to do it any longer.  Who knew how much there is to do after you retire.  I don't have time to work!

"I think many reviews are biased."

They are, follow the money as they say.

A now word about upgrades and professional equipment.  If I were buying a brand new full on pro camera today it would be the Canon EOS 1Dx. I don't even have to think about it.  If you read the reviews, you will find it is not the best camera made right now but it is in certain specs and layout so for me it is.  And then there is that Canon lens line-up that goes with it.

It goes without saying the pro line does not support the company.  The Rebel line does.  If there were not Rebels with such popularity there would be far less pro cameras made.  But this is all just chit-chat and does nothing to help you with your learning of photography.  You need to learn what you have before you eye a $5000+ dollar body.

[jazzman1]

Bob, you missed your calling...you're a comedien LOL.  Man, does that mean "N" brand stands for Nikon??  Not being silly, am serious Bob.   As you stated it i'm still not sure, since you included a few other brand names, one I never heard of.  Forgive me my friend, some days I'm slow.  Thanks for explaining "IMHO".  You know, I heard that before but plum forgot the meaning. 

Also, what's your take on the best brand gear and what do you like for you???   Just curious.   How did you come by your hard earned knowledge of photography???   I will be following yours and Biggs suggestions.   Yesterday I never used "auto" not 1 time at the Zoo.   I took over 500 pics and more than 1/2 hr of video.  I did'nt see any fault in my lens, though I did take some bad pics and a few were fuzzy.   But I attributted that to me, not the lens.   When I learn more about proper settings for lighting and different conditions, my pics will get better.   I'm very comfortable in P mode and will move on to full manual real soon, maybe this coming weekend.    With you and Biggs having my back, how could I fail.

[jazzman1]

Biggs

"This is little wonder since this is a Canon sponsored web site.  It is intended for Canon users in the USA"

Right you are biggs.  But they could still debate about the best Canon model (LOL)  Just joking.     Far as folks thinking you're nuts it don't phase me one bit.  I befriend lost causes, guys abused by bully's, and misfits the world over.  I myself think outside the box at times, and tend to not be a follower ....least ways not for no intelligent reason.  Things you've said sounds logical to me, and I like people who call it the way they see it.  Unless they're 2 cans short of a 6 pack.    Everybody's own opinion should count to themselves, if no one else.  Why should you, or anyone else, take a review or test as the gospel, if your very own experience and hands on use, refute what's said.  Tests, charts, and opinions, can be malipalated depending on who's giving the resultsresults, and if they have some bias or not.  People can have motives that don't benefit the reader.  Not saying all that has no value, but I keep it all in perspective.  I use what I need and throw the rest away.

Have'nt read up on the Canon EOS 1Dx but guess I will now. I do intend to progress with my Rebel before movng up to full frame if I ever do.  I did want to get a better entry level Canon, the Rebel 6s coming soon, or the 70D when I have enough info to decide the better buy for me.  Don't get me wrong, my T3i is a good entry level camera but I can see...very soon I'll be wanting/needing more features and capabilty than my T3i can produce.  I got this particular camera so I could determine if I liked DSLR's enough to want to invest more money in this art.   Did'nt know I'd see so soon a need for more camera technology and features than I now have with mine.  I would like a camera I could live with forever, if I decided not to go full frame, and this T3i is not it.  I really can not find a solid reason yet to go full frame unless I went into photography as a business and needed the quality full frame produces.  I know the pics are sharper, better build quality, and L lens are the very best Canon makes.   But would the extra expense be justfied for a guy just going out taking pics and enjoying photography as a hobby.  Could I really see the difference in my pics with the naked eye, without lab tests, and without pixle peeping???  That's the questions I'm trying to find the answers for.  I just don't want to step up to full frame just for bragging rights.  You know I noticed most of my club members yesterday had full frame cameras, 30 members showed up.  And only a few are into photgraphy as a business, or as sole support.  A few have part time businesses, but can't support themselves on photography alone.   Most are hobbiest just like me.   I understand the pressure to keep up with the joneses when all your friends drive BMW's, if you follow my drift.  I looked on the club site today at all the pics that were posted.   Maybe it's my untrained eye, but most of the pics look to be bout the same quality as mine.  To be honest, I thought a few were not, and they had a full frame camera.  Also to be honest, I thought a couple people's pics were outstanding, better than mine and all the rest.  But only one or 2 people's pics out of the people that posted pics so far.  Anyhow that's my thoughts and delimma with FF cameras right now.  Maybe that will change, I never want to say neve

Ok enuff of chit chat as you say, I'll get back to the business at hand.  Take care my friend.

[ebiggs1]

" I really can not find a solid reason yet to go full frame unless I went into photography as a business and needed the quality full frame produces."

Really?  There is simply the love of the art, or hobby, as reason enough.  My favorite quote from my DSLR 101 class is, "All you have to do is look."  

[jazzman1]

Morning Biggs.

I do understand your entusiam for FF cameras.  You're a pro and you know and can see what they're capable of.  Maybe I will get there, time will tell.  I hope I come to some sort of decision before I make my next lens purchase.  My next purchase should be made with that question in mind.

I'm starting to understand some of the things you and Bob said about lens, focal range, etc.  I do know more about what lens, is for what camera....crop or FF.  I'm beginning to understand how FF lens will look through the viewfinder using with Crop Sensors. 

Looking again closely at my pics I took at the Zoo I can see some of my pics were a little soft and some a little out of focus.   Most like that were at the farthest zoom range.  Most of the best and sharpest were the ones taken at close to medium focal distance.  Some I think, were from not being in focus when I took the shot.  I'm trying to determine which bad pics, were resulting from the short comings of the lens itself.  Anyhow I'm beginning to see what you said about the distortion from the farthest focal range with my 18-200mm lens.  I think I will use my kit lens (18-55mm, 55-250mm, and 75-300mm) again, and compare the difference in my pics to the pics I take with my 18-200mm walk around.  The different shots taken at the Zoo from different focal ranges, different lighting conditions, different angles, etc really put this walk around lens to the test Sunday.   It's the most I've put it through since I've had it.   Doing these tests of my different lens will maybe show me where my walk around lens is lacking.  Maybe then I will start to see some of the short comings you say  this lens has.  I now know and understand the difficulty of making a lens with 18-200mm range.  I thought (being a newbie)  that $700.00 would buy a decent lens such as mine.  Heck, my 55-250 cost $250.00, so thought the extra money that my walk around cost would give me at least equal lens quality for that range.   I knew it was not a great lens, I've seen the cost of better ones and the L's..  But thought it'd give better results than I've gotton.  Now I wish I had gotton the Canon 18-135mm.   I do still want a 1 lens walk around solution.   I don't want to have to carry a bunch of lens, or change lens out in the elements (which is not good in some invironments) when I'm just out taking pics for fun.  I'm beginning to see a need to carry 2 cameras with different lens for serious photo shooting, when not using a walk around lens.  Then again I could use my Canon SX60 HS bridge camera as a walkaround.   It has 65X zoom and also has 1080P video.   I used it at the zoo also, and got great video.  I could use the SX60 as a vacation/walkaround and use my DSLR for serious work.  What do you think???

[jazzman1]

Just discovered a few things. 

#1   I just realised my 18-200mm is a EF-S lens.  Did'nt realise that till just now.  I knew it was a EF-S, but did'nt sink in till now.  I won't be able to use it on any other body except an EF-S.  So no matter which body I upgrade to, I will get rid of it as along with my EF-S 18-55mm, and EF-S 18-250 kit lens.   Did'nt know what EF-S meant till you and Bob told me.  Won't get a EF-S body only ....for an upgrade.

#2   Just found out the new Canon T6s is only EF-S lens mountable, if my info is correct.  Can only use a EF-S lens with it.   Don't understand why Canon did that.  My T3i and the Canon T5i, both are EF bodies.  Why would Canon limit the lens capabilty of the new T6s, after so much updating, improving, and adding more features?

#3  I was considering the Canon T6s or 70D as my next body upgrade.  Have to rethink that now.  I don't want to limit my lens capabilty with the next body upgrade.   Whatever I get, I want to be able to add any lens I want.  Now I'm looking at the Canon 70D or the 7D Mark 11 FF as my next camera body.

#4    What do you think about the Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS, USM lens ...vs.....the Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM???   Which do you think the better lens and how do you think it would fare with my Rebel T3i???   Would I notice any difference from any of the lens I use now???   How much difference would 28mm look viewing through the lens as opposed to 18mm of all the lens I have now???

The thought just came to me that it may be a good thing to keep my T3i instead of selling it....when I get a new camera as a upgrade.   That way all my lens will be interchangable.  My T3i is an EF body.

[ebiggs1]

"I do understand your entusiam for FF cameras."

That is certainly true but my favorite and most used camera is a crop camera!  Yes, it is my beloved 1D Mk IV which is a 1.3 crop ratio.  But as I already told you, that is simply a number.

You are still confused about lenses, aren't you?  

Here goes, a EF-S camera IE the Rebel series and the 60D, 70D or even the great mighty 7D Mk II, all crop cameras, right?

They all use any lens Canon makes.  It does not matter if it is a EF or EF-S, all will work.  It is the 6D, 5D Mk III and the 1Dx that are limited to only EF lenses.  My 1Ds Mk III is also a full frame camera but is now discontinued.  My 1D Mk IV is discontimued, too, but they both requires EF (only) lenses.  The new T6i will take any lens Canon makes just like your T3i.

I can sum up the other questions with a pretty simple answer.  All the lenses that are considered Rebel "kit" lenses are very nearly the same IQ wise.  Their main most function is to be inexpensive. ANd this is fine for most people. This includes most but not all the EF-S lenses.  Especially the ones that zoom a lot and have varible apertures in the f3.5 to f5.6 range.  Of course there are/is exceptions.  (EF-S 10-22mm for instance)

The Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens is a lens I can recommend to everyone.  It is a best buy for cost to IQ rating.  A lot of lens for $300 bucks.  I have had several of them, still have one, and all were very good.

It is going to look considerably longer than 18mm does on your T3i.  You must try to see if it will work for you.

People have the very mistaken thought that telephoto is good for taking distant shots.  How wrong they are.  A tele shooting at a subject at near it infinity focus is going to be pretty limited on subject IQ.  A telephoto is for filling the frame with the subject which generally means, get closer.  Get real close.

This shot was done with a 400mm lens on a 7D crop body.  It was hand held and I was about 20 feet from the bird.  Yes a super telephoto for a 20 foot shot.  But that is what they are for.

This was from about 35-40 feet with a big super tele 600mm.  It is a 100% crop in Photoshop.  Also hand held from a floating dock.  But you see the need to get close, very close.