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Problem with 400mm L 5.6 clarity

pahranagatman
Contributor

On image tests my 400mm L 5.6 is performing significantly less sharp than my new 100-400mm lense. The only think I can think of that would have damaged the 400 was condensaton in the body from temperature changes. Shots are all tribod and cable triggered. No filters on either lens. This is of course cropped way in. Any ideas? The 400 is about 9 months old. Can it be cleaned internally?

 

400L.jpg100-400L.jpg

7D, EFS 18-55 IS, 400mm L 5.6f, 100-400mm L
2 ACCEPTED SOLUTIONS

ebiggs1
Legend
Legend

The top photo looks OOF so if it is there is no way to tell if the lens is "sharp" or not. Maybe you were too close?

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

View solution in original post

amfoto1
Authority

It is possible the lens' focus is out of calibration. Focus mechanisms can wear with use or just get out of adjustment with a bump or even be mis-adjusted from new. This can be adjusted and corrected, worn or faulty parts can be replaced if needed.

 

IMO it's unlikely that the lens needs cleaning inside. Usually stuff inside a lens - even a lot - doesn't effect focus and sharpness very much... It causes flare, veiling, loss of contrast and reduced color saturation.  If images showed uneven sharpness, that might indicate a decentered lens element or group, another problem that often can be corrected. But just judging from your sample images, there don't appear to be problems of those types. I doubt you'll find anything of significance, but you can inspect the inside of a lens with a flashlight. Just don't panic if you see some specks of dust here and there. Those are common and not a problem unless there's a lot... a whole lot!

 

You probably should just send the lens in and have it checked and calibrated.  

 

However, there are other things you can look for first, to rule out as possibilites...

 

1. As already suggested, that lens' closest focusing distance is about 3.5 meters (11.5 feet). If closer than that, you won't be able to focus So, yes, be sure you simply aren't trying to focus too close.  (Notes: For comparison, your 100-400mm's closest focusing distance is 1.8 meters/5.9 feet. Also, adding a macro extension tube will allow the lens to focus closer).

 

2. Do you have a filter on the lens? If so, try without it. Quality filters can be helpful in some situations, but cheaper ones can make a mess of images and some lenses simply don't work well with the filters (actually your 100-400mm is one that is pretty widely known to not work well with filters... even good ones).

 

3. You mention using a tripod and remote release, and those are good for tests like these. Are you also locking up the mirror? At certain longer shutter speeds (usually between roughly 1/30 and 1 second) mirror slap can sometimes cause enough vibration to give some camera shake blur in images. The 100-400's Image Stabilization should be able to correct for that. But the 400/5.6L doesn't have IS, so would be more prone to show any vibration effects. When using really long telephotos without IS, at times I've put a beanbag on top of the camera and lens to help prevent vibrations, too.

 

You didn't mention what camera you are using, but an APS-C 1.6X crop model is more susceptible to camera shake, than a full frame model would be. On the other hand, the larger mirrors in full frame models are more likely to give mirror slap effects (all have some dampening, I'm sure.... but it likely varies with different models) .  

 

Also, Canon has published a white paper about the 18MP APS-C cameras being particularly susceptible to any form of vibration... They recommend using slightly higher shutter speeds to offset this, especially with the crop cameras with very dense sensors.

 

4.  Hopefully you are using One Shot focus for those test shots. Be sure to restrict to only the center AF point. And  If your camera has it, try using Live View. That employs a completely different method of focusing and is a good way to test the camera and lens.

 

5. Use a clean rag lightly dampened with a few drops of isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol to clean the electronic contacts on the back of the lens. Perhaps some oils or dirt on the contacts are interrupting communication between the camera and lens, effecting focus.

 

Those are things you can try yourself at no cost. Since the lens is less than a year old, it should still be under warranty, so I wouldn't hesitate to send it in to Canon for calibration, if none of the above helps.

 

***********
Alan Myers

San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & PRINTROOM 

 





 

 

 

 

View solution in original post

69 REPLIES 69

First, I do see some softness in your sample images, but it's only noticeable when the images are high magnified and it's hard to say why it's occuring.

 

Something I noticed in a couple of your images is flare at the bottom of the image frame. Are you using the lens hood? Is there a filter on the lens? Is it possible your camera has a light leak (failing light seals around the mirror, for example)? When working on a tripod and not with your eye to the viewfinder, are you covering the eyepiece? These things all might have some effect on auto focus precision, in some instances.

 

Other stuff... some of it repititious, I'm afraid:

 

1. You'd be better off starting your own, separate thread discussing 100-400mm lens focus, instead of continuing to tag onto a thread about the 400/5.6L. Other people who might be helpful may be missing your questions, because by adding them to someone else's post here, your concerns are ending up buried several pages into a thread about a çompletely different lens.

 

2. We don't know you or your skill level or how careful your techniques. If your images had the EXIF data attached, it would help because we could look at that and might see something causing the problems. Very often camera or lens "flaws" come down to somthing the photographer is doing. If you "save for the web" when you make your images, that will strip off EXIF data and is usually the reason it's missing. Instead, simply "save" the image. Some image hosting sites or the softwares used to upload to them also might strip off EXIF (but they also might offer a means of preventing this).

 

For example, the B29 image (my dad flew one of those)... what shutter speed? That's a difficult subject, going past you at 160 MPH or faster, as well as somewhat distant... The 5DII isn't the greatest camera at tracking moving subjects, but what focus mode were you in? AI Servo? One Shot? What focus points were you using? All points/auto select? Single point? If single, which one?

 

3. Really critical focus tests should be done on a tripod, with a good target set perfectly parallel to the camera sensor plane. The target can be as simple as a weathered fence, brick wall or newspaper page taped to a wall.

 

4. HAVE YOU TRIED MFA? With 5DII camera you can dial in some Micro Focus Adjustment to calibrate fine tune focus accuracy of this particular lens on your particular camera. To do so, the target should be about 25X to 50X the focal length being tested. So 100mm x 25 / 25 (to convert to inches) gives about 100 inches or roughly 8 feet minimum (but at least the lens' minimum focus distance away). If testing 400mm focal length, the minimum distance for testing needs to be about 32 feet.

 

When testing a zoom and setting MFA to calibrate it, 5DII's verions of MFA only allows for a single adjusment. This may be a problem with a zoom, if the lens is focusing significantly differently at different focal length settings. If it's only slightly different, just use an average. Or make an adjustment that favors the focal length you tend to use most.

 

Canon user manual for 5DII has more detail on how to calibrate your lens yourself, using MFA. This is a manual adjustment procedure. If you want, there are softwares available that can automate the process... one of these is Reikan FoCal (http://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/). You'll have to decide if it's worth the cost.

 

5. When doing focus tests on it's very important to eliminate all other possible variables as much as possible... to try to rule out anything else that can effect image sharpness, so that you are truly testing focus alone.

 

Use a remote release or the self-timer, so you aren't touching the camera at the moment the shutter is released.

 

In some shutter speeds (1/30 and slower), use Mirror Lockup so there is no possibility of internal camera vibrations. (When shooting, you can use Live VIew instead, for the same effect as MLU... However Live View uses a separate method of focusing, so would not show you the accuracy of the primary focus system, as seen in the viewfinder.)

 

If using the 100-400mm on a tripod, you MUST TURN OFF IS at the switch. (It is one of several Canon IS lenses that do not "self-detect" when on a tripod and turn IS off themselves. As a result, when there is no movement at all, IS in this particular lens (and the EF 28-135 IS, EF 300/4 IS and a couple other lenses) can CAUSE movement, which will appear as blur in images.

 

Good light, good subject contrast for the AF to lock onto are important, too. You don't want to use too high an iSO, since that will also cost some image resolution that might be mistaken for a lens problem

 

Set your 5DII to One Shot and only use the center AF point.

 

6. We've asked some questions which you don't appear to have answered and that have bearing on lens sharpness and focus. For example... DO YOU HAVE A FILTER ON THE 100-400mm? If so, remove it and redo your tests. This lens doesn't like filters! Even good filters on a 100-400mm seem to have some effect on image sharpness. I don't know why this occurs, but many 100-400L users have been very pleasantly surprised how good and sharp their lens suddenly became... after they removed a "protection" filter from it!  Filters effect all lenses to some extent... maybe very little, maybe a lot under certain circumstances... but the 100-400mm in particular for some reason just seems to be very sensitive to adding any filter.

 

7. Almost all lenses are sharper stopped down a bit from their max aperture. HOWEVER, f22 you say you are using is a bit of overkill, and actually starts getting into an optical effect called "diffraction", that reduces fine detail and softens images. The full frame, 21MP 5DII is "diffraction limited" at f10 (uncropped 8x12 print of image). f11 it hardly shows up... f16 is generally okay, too... but much beyond that you start to see more fine detail lost to diffraction. The larger the image is viewed, the more noticeable it becomes (8x10/8x12 is generally used as a standard, to allow apples to apples comparison). Read more about diffraction here: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm 

 

Beware of being too overly critical. Looking at a 21MP image at 100% on most modern computer monitors is equivalent ot making a five foot wide print and then viewing it from only 18 inches away. OF COURSE it will look bad!

 

Looking at your images... yes they appear a bit soft. Backed off to the equivalent of a 13x19" or 16x24" print, they actually look pretty good. So the softness is only slight and it may be possible to improve with MFA.

 

If CAREFUL testing shows the lens consisitently focuses differently with different focal lengths and/or with closer or more distant subjects, which MFA cannot correct, especially if it's an older lens or was bought used, it may have some wear and tear, need to be sent in for service and calibration.

 

We're trying to help... and the sample images help use help you. But lacking EXIF data on the images and not seeing any answers to some of the questions we've sent back to you, we can only do so much.

 

***********


Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & EXPOSUREMANAGER 

nerys
Contributor
Me?

nerys
Contributor
I will post answers to questions and more details in new thread later but for now what do you mean my exit date is missing I upload raw to imgur does imgur remove EXIF data?

"2. We don't know you or your skill level or how careful your techniques. If your images had the EXIF data attached, it would help because we could look at that and might see something causing the problems. Very often camera or lens "flaws" come down to somthing the photographer is doing. If you "save for the web" when you make your images, that will strip off EXIF data and is usually the reason it's missing. Instead, simply "save" the image. Some image hosting sites or the softwares used to upload to them also might strip off EXIF (but they also might offer a means of preventing this). ..."

 

"3. Really critical focus tests should be done on a tripod, with a good target set perfectly parallel to the camera sensor plane. The target can be as simple as a weathered fence, brick wall or newspaper page taped to a wall."

 

Do react to what Alan Myers suggested.  This will help eliminate things and narrow down the problem.

 

"4. HAVE YOU TRIED MFA? With 5DII camera you can dial in some Micro Focus Adjustment to calibrate fine tune focus accuracy of this particular lens on your particular camera. To do so, the target should be about 25X to 50X the focal length being tested. So 100mm x 25 / 25 (to convert to inches) gives about 100 inches or roughly 8 feet minimum (but at least the lens' minimum focus distance away). If testing 400mm focal length, the minimum distance for testing needs to be about 32 feet."

 

This one I advise against doing at this juncture.  Without knowing you better, you could make everything a lot worse.  It might be good, however, to make sure it is set to zero, no adjustment.  At that thought maybe you should reset the camera to all factory defaults.

Do the tripod test from above.

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!


@ebiggs1 wrote:

"2. We don't know you or your skill level or how careful your techniques. If your images had the EXIF data attached, it would help because we could look at that and might see something causing the problems. Very often camera or lens "flaws" come down to somthing the photographer is doing. If you "save for the web" when you make your images, that will strip off EXIF data and is usually the reason it's missing. Instead, simply "save" the image. Some image hosting sites or the softwares used to upload to them also might strip off EXIF (but they also might offer a means of preventing this). ..."

 

"3. Really critical focus tests should be done on a tripod, with a good target set perfectly parallel to the camera sensor plane. The target can be as simple as a weathered fence, brick wall or newspaper page taped to a wall."

 

Do react to what Alan Myers suggested.  This will help eliminate things and narrow down the problem.

 

"4. HAVE YOU TRIED MFA? With 5DII camera you can dial in some Micro Focus Adjustment to calibrate fine tune focus accuracy of this particular lens on your particular camera. To do so, the target should be about 25X to 50X the focal length being tested. So 100mm x 25 / 25 (to convert to inches) gives about 100 inches or roughly 8 feet minimum (but at least the lens' minimum focus distance away). If testing 400mm focal length, the minimum distance for testing needs to be about 32 feet."

 

This one I advise against doing at this juncture.  Without knowing you better, you could make everything a lot worse.  It might be good, however, to make sure it is set to zero, no adjustment.  At that thought maybe you should reset the camera to all factory defaults.

Do the tripod test from above.


I disagree and side with Alan on this one. AFMA is tedious, but not at at all difficult, to set; and if you try it and it doesn't help, or it makes things worse, you can set it back to zero in less than thirty seconds. So I see no reason not to try it. Read about it in the manual first, of course.

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA

Bob from Boston,

With out knowing where he is (his lens) MFA is useless.  Not only for experienced persons but especially for inexperienced folks.  It is sesigned to get that lasi goodness from a lens.  Not to correct a bad lens.

And at this point we don't know if there is something wrong with the lens.  Neither does he so where do you adjust?

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!


@ebiggs1 wrote:

Bob from Boston,

With out knowing where he is (his lens) MFA is useless.  Not only for experienced persons but especially for inexperienced folks.  It is sesigned to get that lasi goodness from a lens.  Not to correct a bad lens.

And at this point we don't know if there is something wrong with the lens.  Neither does he so where do you adjust?


Those are the words of someone who never lost half of an important shoot because he failed to check out a new lens that turned out to need +9 points of AFMA.

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA

"Those are the words of someone who never lost half of an important shoot because he failed to check out a new lens that turned out to need +9 points of AFMA."

 

And you would be correct.  Smiley Happy

Why would a person go into "an important shoot" without knowing their equipment.  That is DSLR 101, my friend.

I never took anything new or untried into any critical job, ever.  Matter of fact everything was/is covered by backup equipment.

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!


@ebiggs1 wrote:

"Those are the words of someone who never lost half of an important shoot because he failed to check out a new lens that turned out to need +9 points of AFMA."

 

And you would be correct.  Smiley Happy

Why would a person go into "an important shoot" without knowing their equipment.  That is DSLR 101, my friend.

I never took anything new or untried into any critical job, ever.  Matter of fact everything was/is covered by backup equipment.


I don't dispute any of that. I had just received the lens and hadn't had time to test it. It's a mistake I haven't repeated.

 

But the point (for this context) is that when I saw the result, I had to learn about AFMA and apply it to that lens/camera combination forthwith. The alternative was to waste time sending it back and trying again. And the reason I was able to solve the problem quickly is that AFMA just isn't very complicated. You take a series of pictures and see which one looks the sharpest at the operative AF points. Not many things in photography are simpler than that. Advising an experienced photographer not to try it, on the premise that he probably couldn't get it right, makes little or no sense to me. Especially since it's impossible to screw it up in a way that can't be immediately undone.

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA

Bob fome Boston said,

"Advising an experienced photographer not to try it, ..."

 

But I don't know this? Experienced?  Taking it for granted are we?  Smiley Frustrated

 

"You take a series of pictures and see which one looks the sharpest at the operative AF points."

 

Now, Bob from Boston, we both know that is not how to do it.  Don't we?  It takes as Alan Myers suggested concentrated work done on a tripod. At a given target and range, carefully.  Same, same each time.

 

It is a moot point because that isn't the OP's problem.

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!
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