cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Problem with 400mm L 5.6 clarity

pahranagatman
Contributor

On image tests my 400mm L 5.6 is performing significantly less sharp than my new 100-400mm lense. The only think I can think of that would have damaged the 400 was condensaton in the body from temperature changes. Shots are all tribod and cable triggered. No filters on either lens. This is of course cropped way in. Any ideas? The 400 is about 9 months old. Can it be cleaned internally?

 

400L.jpg100-400L.jpg

7D, EFS 18-55 IS, 400mm L 5.6f, 100-400mm L
2 ACCEPTED SOLUTIONS

ebiggs1
Legend
Legend

The top photo looks OOF so if it is there is no way to tell if the lens is "sharp" or not. Maybe you were too close?

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

View solution in original post

amfoto1
Authority

It is possible the lens' focus is out of calibration. Focus mechanisms can wear with use or just get out of adjustment with a bump or even be mis-adjusted from new. This can be adjusted and corrected, worn or faulty parts can be replaced if needed.

 

IMO it's unlikely that the lens needs cleaning inside. Usually stuff inside a lens - even a lot - doesn't effect focus and sharpness very much... It causes flare, veiling, loss of contrast and reduced color saturation.  If images showed uneven sharpness, that might indicate a decentered lens element or group, another problem that often can be corrected. But just judging from your sample images, there don't appear to be problems of those types. I doubt you'll find anything of significance, but you can inspect the inside of a lens with a flashlight. Just don't panic if you see some specks of dust here and there. Those are common and not a problem unless there's a lot... a whole lot!

 

You probably should just send the lens in and have it checked and calibrated.  

 

However, there are other things you can look for first, to rule out as possibilites...

 

1. As already suggested, that lens' closest focusing distance is about 3.5 meters (11.5 feet). If closer than that, you won't be able to focus So, yes, be sure you simply aren't trying to focus too close.  (Notes: For comparison, your 100-400mm's closest focusing distance is 1.8 meters/5.9 feet. Also, adding a macro extension tube will allow the lens to focus closer).

 

2. Do you have a filter on the lens? If so, try without it. Quality filters can be helpful in some situations, but cheaper ones can make a mess of images and some lenses simply don't work well with the filters (actually your 100-400mm is one that is pretty widely known to not work well with filters... even good ones).

 

3. You mention using a tripod and remote release, and those are good for tests like these. Are you also locking up the mirror? At certain longer shutter speeds (usually between roughly 1/30 and 1 second) mirror slap can sometimes cause enough vibration to give some camera shake blur in images. The 100-400's Image Stabilization should be able to correct for that. But the 400/5.6L doesn't have IS, so would be more prone to show any vibration effects. When using really long telephotos without IS, at times I've put a beanbag on top of the camera and lens to help prevent vibrations, too.

 

You didn't mention what camera you are using, but an APS-C 1.6X crop model is more susceptible to camera shake, than a full frame model would be. On the other hand, the larger mirrors in full frame models are more likely to give mirror slap effects (all have some dampening, I'm sure.... but it likely varies with different models) .  

 

Also, Canon has published a white paper about the 18MP APS-C cameras being particularly susceptible to any form of vibration... They recommend using slightly higher shutter speeds to offset this, especially with the crop cameras with very dense sensors.

 

4.  Hopefully you are using One Shot focus for those test shots. Be sure to restrict to only the center AF point. And  If your camera has it, try using Live View. That employs a completely different method of focusing and is a good way to test the camera and lens.

 

5. Use a clean rag lightly dampened with a few drops of isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol to clean the electronic contacts on the back of the lens. Perhaps some oils or dirt on the contacts are interrupting communication between the camera and lens, effecting focus.

 

Those are things you can try yourself at no cost. Since the lens is less than a year old, it should still be under warranty, so I wouldn't hesitate to send it in to Canon for calibration, if none of the above helps.

 

***********
Alan Myers

San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & PRINTROOM 

 





 

 

 

 

View solution in original post

69 REPLIES 69

Let me get this clear.  You shot, "...  (shot a power neter maybe 2 meters away) ... " ?  If so, that is nearly at close focus of the lens if it is not.  400mm@f5.6 is going to have an extremely shallow DOF.  I am going to guess less that a quarter of an inch.

 

If this is true, I am going to recommend you do a lot of learning on how to use this lens.  Big tele's have a learning curve to get the best results from them.  Besides they must be rock steady as 1/500 is a minimun SS for such a lens. 

 

I suggest you get it on a tripod. On a bright daylighted go outside and give it a go.  Set ISO at 800 so to keep the SS high.

What you are doing is proving nothing.  You can even use TV and fix the SS to 1/500 and even 1/1000.

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

Ouch. did I rub you the wrong way or something? it was unintentional I assure you. I was actually not aware the dof changed with distance quite so much or could be quite so shallow. I am used to such shallow dof with my 800mm mirror lens (pain in the A$$ to focus but man when you get it it is spectacular) but my cheapy 75-300 has ZERO such issues with DOF in the situations I have been using it.

 

is there that much a difference between 75-300 aps and 100-400L and Full Frame ?

 

would explain the half blury image (I was not perpendicular to it)

 

I was in the back of the store in the car just playing with it. my usualy prey is a rocket 200-500 ft away from me.

 

Not sure what you mean by SS 1/500th to get a good shot I have already done handhel shots at 1/13th with the lens stabilization off (never had one with stabilization so did not turn it on) handheld and they came out just fine ??

 

the stabilization sure does help though!! did some 1/4 second shots once I figure that function out. nice. very nice.

 

it seems "up close" the lens is great (anything within 20ft of me) but anything futther away goes to crap unless I jack up the aperature.

 

I shot a label about 25-30ft away on another power meter and I could not read it with my own eyes and could not read it at 400mm.

 

I jacked the aperature to 22 and I was able to read the label. it seems further away it is simply not focusing on the right spot. on some targets you can clearly "see" that the focus is just wrong. I was shooting a triplet of road signs at our entrance about 60 or 70 feet away at a guess figuring good high contract subject.

 

I kept depressing trying to get it to lock in but it always looked "wrong" you could even see a "double image" on the edge of the sign IE it was not in focus.

 

I can't upload any images tonight. DOLT I forgot I got a higher performance CF card for this camera instead of my usual SD card in CF adapter. so I can't actually download anything until I find one of my old CF readers 🙂 or reshoot some images with an SD in CF adapter until I get a reader.

 

I may not be an expert in the lingo etc.. but I do know how to use one of these camera's and have a lot of experience with what is right and not right.

 

I am hoping this is just a "new tech have to learn new tricks" kind of thing but I would think set it for auto point shoot should be simple enough. it IS just a camera afterall. I have half a dozen of them.

 

Do you have a good suggestion on where I can start with some toots on using this more advanced equipment? I am going to go hunt down the manual for my mark II (it did not come with one) is there a manual for the lens? (I will check canon's site)

 

BTW up close it is clearly superior to my 100-300 L lens (both set to 300) but far away it is inferior to that lens. though I have not looked at images on a larger display yet. I will once I download. the 100-300 L is also new to me.

"Ouch. did I rub you the wrong way or something?"

 

Absolutely not!  I am just totally confused or surprised, maybe is a better word.  I am also going to repeat my advise, below.

 

"I am going to recommend you do a lot of learning on how to use this lens.  Big tele's have a learning curve to get the best results from them.  Besides they must be rock steady as (is the) 1/500 a minimun SS (shutter speed) for such a lens." 

This assumes you are at the 400mm side where 90% of the time is where it is used.

 

You said,

"is there that much a difference between 75-300 aps and 100-400L and Full Frame ?"

 

There is a difference. How much is dependent on the person's point of view I guess.  I see a great deal but I don't think that is your issue.

 

You said,

"I have already done handhel shots at 1/13th with the lens stabilization off ..."

 

You are way ahead of me as that is not possibile for me.  I can't help with that as I can't do it.

 

You said,

"BTW up close it is clearly superior to my 100-300 L lens (both set to 300) but far away it is inferior to that lens. though I have not looked at images on a larger display yet."

 

Neither the 100-300mm nor the 100-400mm are stealar lenses in the sharpness catagoey.  That is not their best feature. Conviemence is.  For instance the EF 400mm f5.6L (prime) can deliver close to twice the precieved MP to the sensor that either of these two.

 

The web is full of help  and manuals for any of the stuff you have.  All manuals are availble from Canon web site for d/l.

However, my friend, you need to do this first.  

"I suggest you get it on a tripod. On a bright daylighted go outside and give it a go.  Set ISO at 800 so to keep the SS (shutter speed) high. What you are doing is proving nothing.  You can even use Tv and fix the SS (shutter speed) to 1/500 and even 1/1000."

 

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

"Looks a lot like camera shake to me."

 

I am in step with Alan Myers 100%.

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

my 100-400 is making similar images.

Here are some I shot

http://i.imgur.com/lYGQbOD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pSK09BX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pnm4Hik.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7YenvRP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kbncvw1.jpg

Here is a CLOSE shot at 400mm close to the closer limit of focus

jacked up the aperture and its razor sharp

http://i.imgur.com/DUYFhp7.jpg

a B29 that flew over. as you can see it is not "clean" fuzzy edges. it is simply not in "focus" or something

took several shots all the same

http://i.imgur.com/aMBP2bz.jpg

Here is a stabilized shot I took today (resting on the car's roof no vibrations etc..) at 300mm

http://i.imgur.com/Cdapb3q.jpg

Here is the same shot with my older 100-300 L

http://i.imgur.com/Goz3KPT.jpg

also at 300mm

Note I am shocked how much better the COLOR is on the 100-400 L over the 100-300 L

but as you can see the 100-300 L is quite a bit sharper while the 100-400 L shot just seems out of focus.

Even my cheap little casio pisser takes a sharper shot (more compression artifacts and horrible color but more "sharp edges" than the 100-400 L

http://i.imgur.com/jLpbSdP.jpg


another comparison here is the meter box at defaults
http://i.imgur.com/7YenvRP.jpg

and with aperture cranked up
http://i.imgur.com/PsQ0Qnx.jpg

simply a huge difference. you can actually read the label.

suggestions?

Again............"Your posted images must have been "saved for the web"... all the EXIF data is stripped off them. If it were there, we could look at it and check things like this ourselves."

 

It still looks like your technique.  IE, camera shake because of ..... ?

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

The 100-400mm and its smallerr brother are not the sharpest lenses made.  But they can produce nice results if you use them correctly.

This photo was cropped heavily in PS,  shot at f5.6, 1/60 at the 400mm side.  It is typical.  So if you are not getting this type of result and you are certain it is not you, have the lens looked at by Canon service.

 

IMG_1514.jpg

 

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

Crap.. wonder what that will cost 😞

yeah even my 75-300 $50 lens is getting sharper results at distance.

at close range the pics are sharp as crap. remember my comparison is my old XTI with cheap 75-300. it might not be "sharp" compared to other lenses in its class but I would think a $1500 lens should be sharper than my $50 lens right??

I would be quite happy to get the results you get 🙂

How about showing the EXIF?  Why not?

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

By the way, I like the brief reviews and more detailed discussion of lenses on Lensrentals.com website.

 

One reason I value their opinions is that they see many copies of any particular lens... have multiple copies, sometimes dozens, of any given model in stock.... and have the opportunity to compare them closely with many other similar lenses from other manufacturers. Also, their lenses likely don't have an easy life... spend a lot of time bouncing around in the back of a UPS truck, and as rentals likely don't get the same care by users, as they would give their own lenses. Lensrentals also test their lenses after each is returned, tear them down to see what makes them tick, and regularly have them serviced. All this adds up to pretty good info about a lens.

 

Roger at Lensrentals.com sounds like a big fan of the original 100-400mm. Up front he admits it's not as sharp a lens as some primes.... it's a compromise. But he calls it a "very good compromise" that often ends up in his bag instead of several "better" primes for all the conveniences the zoom offers... a single lens covering a variety of useful focsl lengths.  

 

He also likes the push/pull zoom. Some people love, others don't... I'm afraid I'm in the latter category, but to be fair that's a bias from similar design zooms in the past, not the 100-400L specificially. There is no doubt that the push/pull zoom is fast and with quickly moving subjects can make the difference between getting the shot or not. It's been a popular lens for airshows and birds in flight, in particular.

 

Roger notes that he 100-400L isn't its sharpest wide open... recommends using it one stop (or more) down from wide open, when image quality is critical... so instead of f4.5 at the 100mm setting, use f7.1... and instead of f5.6 at the 400mm focal length, set f8 or slightly smaller. (Again, for best IQ avoid f22, f32.)

 

What Roger is actually doing is managing his expectations and working within the limitations fo the lens, to get the very best he can out of it. This is similar to what I mentioned earlier, about not evaluating image sharpness and focus at 100%, since that's equivalent to ridiculously large prints. Back off to 25 or 33%... that's more realistic and closer to the largest size most of us will ever print an image. Your images look pretty good at more reasonable sizes.

 

If you test the lens, Micro Focus Adjust it yourself, or end up sending it off to have it calibrated, and are certain you've fully figured out and are using the best techniques with it to maximize image quality... But still aren't satisfied... Well maybe you should consider switching to another lens or two two or three or four. 

 

For example, you might expect more from primes (for one thing, they can be more precisely Micro Adjusted on a 5DII)... If you don't mind carrying around and swapping out between 100/2.0,  200/2.8L, 300/4L and 400/5.6L, there's little doubt that... used right... those lenses may give you the results you're after.

 

Even better, EF 100/2.8 macro (tho a bit slower focusing), 200/2L II, 300/2.8L II and 400/4 DO II or 400/2.8L II would give you some of the very best image quality available from any lens made by anyone, ever.  Of course, you might need to hire a Sherpa to help carry them around. And you'll have the equivalent of the cost of a small car invested in them.

 

Or maybe you should look at upgrading to the new 100-400L Mark II. It's sharper, especially at notable wide open and in the corners of images. Likely a lot of this is thanks to the addition of fluorite to the optical formula (which you'll also find in some other top performing Canon teles... such as the EF 70-200/2.8 II, 70-200/4 IS, and most of the "super tele" primes).  It's also got even better IS and slightly faster focus. However it's now a two ring design, rather than push/pull (either a good thing ro a bad thing, depending upon how you feel about push/pull zooms). And it's a little bigger. And it's more expensive.

 

Or, rein in your expectations... Stop "pixel peeping" unnecessarily and evaluate your images in sizes more like you'll actually be using them. When I look at your photos as they might print 13x19 or even 16x24... They look pretty good to me! (P.S. Try enlarging that point-n-shoot's files that you think so highly of to 60" wide and see how they compare!)

 

***********


Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & EXPOSUREMANAGER 

 

 

 

  

Announcements