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Frequent Contributor
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎08-21-2015

Re: Looking for input on lens purchase

[ Edited ]

@RobertTheFat wrote:

@Orcrone wrote:

 

Robert, what does YMMV stand for?

 

Thanks again,

Marc


"Your milage may vary." It's a term from the U.S. auto industry's advertisements (incorporated therein at the behest of their lawyers, no doubt). So if you live elsewhere, you may not have seen it. Sorry for the confusion.  Smiley Wink



I've heard the term, just wasn't expecting it in this context. Smiley Happy

 

BTW, spend 10 glorious winters outside of Boston

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 4,952
Registered: ‎06-25-2014

Re: Looking for input on lens purchase


@Orcrone wrote:

Scotty, you bring up another interesting thought that I had not contemplated and I'll explain why. Maybe those with a lot more experience than me can help me understand. I first got into photography in the early 80s with a Canon Rebel film camera. My everyday lens was a Tamron 28-200 zoom.  I used that for years until diverginig for a while and owning several different point & shoots. In 2012 I purchased my first (and only) digital SLR. I've become very used to using either my 18-135 or 70-300. The 10-22 does not get used as often.

 

So I generally go on vacation and use a single zoom lens, only occassionally switching between the two. Zoom in and out as necessary. There's a group of people I know. Zoom in and frame the picture just right. Oh, look at the landscape behind them. Zoom out for that shot. I can understand how you'd use primes in a studio environment. This may sound ridiculous but how do you use primes elsewhere? It seems like there will be a lot of lens switching. And that's assuming you don't actually want a focal length between two primes.

 

More to the immediate suggestion. a 50 mm would be equivalent to an 80 mm on a FF camera. I was looking on the Canon web site at their refurbished lenses. There are three fast prime 50 mm lenses; the EF 50mm f/1.8 II for $100.79, the EF 50 mm f/1.2L USM for $1159.20 and the EF 50mm f/1.4 USM for $319.99.  I'm sure the L lens would be a very good lens.  But how would the other two lenses compare with the 24-105 f/4L IS USM set at 50mm. I understand they'd all be much faster and have a much smaller depth of field. Could the f/1.8 lens at such a low price be as good as the zoom? I guess I'm still considering the EF 24-105 f/4L IS USM, just with prime lenses too.

 

Just noticed one other thing. None of the three aforementioned lenses have image stabilization. Is that a concern?


This forum is divided into two camps: those who maintain that prime lenses fill other than a niche role in a DSLR user's equipment mix and those who don't. I'm one of those who don't. My wife and I are very well equipped for our photographic roles. (She's a moderately serious amateur, and I'm a borderline semi-professional. Photography is part of my job, but not a major part.) And we have precisely two prime lenses between us: a 60mm f/2.8 macro and a 30mm f/1.4. She uses the macro sporadically (to very good effect); neither of us ever uses the 30mm. Unless I go crazy one of these days and buy a tilt/shift lens (I think they're all primes), I can't see us ever buying another prime lens. They're just not necessary in today's world. Yes, there's probably a slight IQ advantage to a prime, but I defy you to spot it and point it out. There was a time (some of us are old enough to remember it) when zoom lenses weren't nearly as good as primes, but those days are long gone. In my opinion (and it's just that, of course), the overwhelming convenience advantage of zooms marginalizes nearly all primes.

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,861
Registered: ‎12-02-2012

Re: Looking for input on lens purchase

[ Edited ]
How many f/1.4 zooms are out there?

If I shoot in a dim restaurant or club at, say ISO 1600, 1/60th shutter at f/1.4 and get a good exposure, I am happy.

I would not be happy if I had to give up the enormous THREE stop advantage, and use my 24-105 f/4 lens at f/4. Obviously I can't shoot any people at 1/8th of a second, so I'd be forced to jack the ISO up to a crunchy grainy low detail ISO 12,800. You could do it, sure, but why would you want to?

Or in less awful light, I like to be at ISO 400 better than ISO 3200, or at double the shutter speed plus 2 stops lower ISO, etc.

Plus the DOF possibilities. Plus the nifty OOF highlights, bokeh balls, etc.
Scott

Canon 5d mk 4, Canon 6D, EF 70-200mm L f/2.8 IS mk2; EF 16-35 f/2.8 L mk. III; Sigma 35mm f/1.4 "Art" EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro; EF 85mm f/1.8; EF 1.4x extender mk. 3; EF 24-105 f/4 L; EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS; 3x Phottix Mitros+ speedlites

Why do so many people say "FER-tographer"? Do they take "fertographs"?
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎08-21-2015

Re: Looking for input on lens purchase

I can understand both points of view. As I already stated I have some concern about carrying and changing a number of different prime lenses. Perhaps after getting used to it I would not find it so daunting. On the other hand I can definiteily see the apeal of a good prime lens that goes down to somewhere in the 1.8 to 1.2 range.

Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,967
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Looking for input on lens purchase

[ Edited ]

@Orcrone wrote:

I own the Canon T4i along with three zoom lenses; the EF-S 10-22, an EF-S 18-135 STM and an EF 70-300. Canon has the EF 24-105 F4l refurbished on sale for $639.99 and I'm wondering about pulling the trigger. One concern is the three lenses have a nice amount of overlap that I would lose on the 24 mm end with thiws purchase. I'm not a professional photographer,  but I do occasionally blow up a shot and hang it on the walls.

 

Normally I leave my 18-135 on the camera. With the 24-105 having less reach on each end of the scale I'm concerned about how much more often I'll be changing lenses.

 


Are my concerns unjustified? I've never useds an L series lens before, so I'm not sure about how much of an improvement I will see. Will it offset any potential disadvantages?

 

Thanks


Don't do it!!!

 

The EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM is a newer lens design. 

 

The EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM is an older lens design.

 

As such you will NOT see a significant improvement in image quality. All you get is a shorter zoom range and a slightly heavier lens. The weight however is offset by your lighter wallet having spent money unnecessarily. 

 

Compare the MTFs of the two lenses and you'll see.

EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM

 

EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

Frequent Contributor
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎08-21-2015

Re: Looking for input on lens purchase

[ Edited ]

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with all the TLAs. What is MTF?

 

What if, hypothetically speaking,  I was considering purchasing a 5d mark ii?


@TTMartin wrote:

@Orcrone wrote:

I own the Canon T4i along with three zoom lenses; the EF-S 10-22, an EF-S 18-135 STM and an EF 70-300. Canon has the EF 24-105 F4l refurbished on sale for $639.99 and I'm wondering about pulling the trigger. One concern is the three lenses have a nice amount of overlap that I would lose on the 24 mm end with thiws purchase. I'm not a professional photographer,  but I do occasionally blow up a shot and hang it on the walls.

 

Normally I leave my 18-135 on the camera. With the 24-105 having less reach on each end of the scale I'm concerned about how much more often I'll be changing lenses.

 


Are my concerns unjustified? I've never useds an L series lens before, so I'm not sure about how much of an improvement I will see. Will it offset any potential disadvantages?

 

Thanks


Don't do it!!!

 

The EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM is a newer lens design. 

 

The EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM is an older lens design.

 

As such you will NOT see a significant improvement in image quality. All you get is a shorter zoom range and a slightly heavier lens. The weight however is offset by your lighter wallet having spent money unnecessarily. 

 

Compare the MTFs of the two lenses and you'll see.

EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM

 

EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM


 

Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,967
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Looking for input on lens purchase

[ Edited ]

@Orcrone wrote:

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with all the TLAs. What is MTF?

 

What if, hypothetically speaking,  I was considering purchasing a 5d mark ii?

 

MTF stands for Modulation Transfer Function. An MTF chart tells you how sharp a lens is, both with the aperture wide open, and at it's optimum aperture.

 

They are publish by the manufactures so you can see how a lens will perform. 

 

Reading and understanding lens MTF charts

 

When Canon updated their STM lens line, they updated the optics using the latest computer design and manufacturing. Canon's STM lenses give you image quality equivalent to first generation IS L lenses like the EF 24-105 f/4L IS. 

 

As for the 5D Mk II it is my opinion you buy the lenses for the camera you have, not one you might get someday. What if the 5D Mk II you find comes with the EF 24-105 f/4L IS? There is no rush to buy a new lens today. 

 

Here's another TLA - In my opinion buying the EF 24-105 f/4L IS.is just a case of GAS.

10 Tips on How to Cure Yourself of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome)

 

 

Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,967
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Looking for input on lens purchase

[ Edited ]
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎08-21-2015

Re: Looking for input on lens purchase


@TTMartin wrote:

@Orcrone wrote:

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with all the TLAs. What is MTF?

 

What if, hypothetically speaking,  I was considering purchasing a 5d mark ii?

 

MTF stands for Modulation Transfer Function. An MTF chart tells you how sharp a lens is, both with the aperture wide open, and at it's optimum aperture.

 

They are publish by the manufactures so you can see how a lens will perform. 

 

Reading and understanding lens MTF charts

 

When Canon updated their STM lens line, they updated the optics using the latest computer design and manufacturing. Canon's STM lenses give you image quality equivalent to first generation IS L lenses like the EF 24-105 f/4L IS. 

 

As for the 5D Mk II it is my opinion you buy the lenses for the camera you have, not one you might get someday. What if the 5D Mk II you find comes with the EF 24-105 f/4L IS? There is no rush to buy a new lens today. 

 

Here's another TLA - In my opinion buying the EF 24-105 f/4L IS.is just a case of GAS.

10 Tips on How to Cure Yourself of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome)

 

 


I definitely think that I'm suffering from GAS. It started out as finding a good price on the 24-105 lens. But I have been thinking about purchasing a FF camera for a while now. So when I started looking on eBay I was surprised at how relatively inexpensively I could purchase a 5d mark ii with the 24-105. Of course I then started investigating further and decided I'd really like the autofocus system on the mark iii. Then I realized that my inexpensive T4i has a hinged, rotating LCD screen which is not available on the mark ii or iii. May not seem like much but I've had a few times that it's saved me when I needed to shoot over a crowd.

 

So my GAS is being countered by my CDS (Can't Decide on Poop).. 

VIP
Posts: 11,097
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: Looking for input on lens purchase

Well you certainly have a lot of points-of-view, so here is mine.  As I stated get the EF 24-105mm f4L for the reasons I stated.  It will work on any camera you decide to buy.  What you have now, will not.  One problem with talking about one spec on a lens is, they are more complicated than one spec.  The "L" lens is built to a higher standard.  Everything about it is better.

You really can't go wrong with it and the 10-22mm you have.  Later up grade the other two.

 

It sounds to me like primes are not for you.  I recommend you not even consider one.  At this point in your venture anyway.

Do not even consider the EF 50mm f1.2L prime lens.  It is not an easy lens to use and/or live with.  As you progress and learn how to more use your gear, you can add these specialized lenses.  You really need to walk before you run.  Smiley Happy

EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV, even less and less other stuff.
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