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Canon 18-200mm zoom lense

jazzman1
Rising Star

I'm new here.  I have a Canon T3i.  Two kit lenses came with it in a bundle...18-55mm, 55-250mm.  I am considering getting the Canon 18-200mm.  Would the Canon 18-200mm be a good choice to replace both lenses, or are there better choices to replace them with and keep the 18-200mm also?

2 ACCEPTED SOLUTIONS

ebiggs1
Legend
Legend

I would not buy one for a few reasons.  One and formost, it is more difficult to make a zoom lens when the zoom range gets very extreme.  18 to 200 is a 11x range and very ambitious to say the least. Not solely in optics but in build quality, too. It will be in the same quality level as the two lenses you have so the only advantage is having just the one lens.  Is that what you require? The top benefit of a DSLR is the ability to have the right lens for the right job.  That usually involves several different lenses.  So you will be defeating that concept somewhat!

 

I would rather see you get a different level of lens for instance the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens.  Directly replacing your 18-55mm kit lens. Of course this is in case what you have is not working for you. But this move is into a better built, better optics and a little faster lens all of which can be very useful.  Make no mistake the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens is a very good lens and offers a constant aperture.  A super plus in my book.

 

Unfortunalely these lens upgrades are expensive and replacing the 55-250mm is going to be more so.

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

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Easy ones first!

The S in EF-S stands for short focus.  Any camera that can use a EF-S lens can use a EF lens, too.  A camera that is designed for EF lenses can only use EF, no S lenses.

 

The EF 50mm f1.4 is can be used on either EF or EF-S bodies.  It is not actually designed for either.  It is simply a 50mm f1.4 lens.  Either body no matter, it is still a 50mm lens.  It can not change that, however, on a crop body, a Rebel for instance, it will give the same perspective as a 80mm lens would on a full frame body.  Typically making it a pretty good portrait lens.

Now these are just numbers and of no real concern except to sorta guide you in a comparasion.  You choose the lens that works for your need.

 

You need to make the decision on whether you are going to remain with crop body sized camera or not.  You may wind up buying all your lenses over and that is not a good thing!  Is it?  I know lots of people that live with crop bodies all there lives and  know folks that only shoot FF.  There is not right or wrong.  It is what it is. Nothing more.  Lots of photographers even shoot both, believe it or not!

 

Now my personal feelings on a "do all lens".  For me there is none.  I always have at least two cameras and two lenses with me all the time.  A very strict rule I never broke..................until lately.  Another rule I will never break is to use any third party lens...............................until lately.  For the most part they were junk.  Oh sure if you lucked out and got a good one, it was pretty good, no doubt.  But very spotty and hit or miss.   Not for me!  But "lately" there has been a great change in third party lenses.  Especially at Sigma.  They make very high quality glass and they have improved their CS drasticly.  Tamron is close behind and getting better.  Forget the rest, Tokina and the others for now

 

Now back to that "do all" lens.  I did buy a Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD.  Not quite a "do all" but it has a fair amount of zoom useage.  It turns out it is a nice lens and impossibile to beat for $1100 bucks.  Worthy of consideration by anyone.

 

What do I carry?  A EF 24-70mm f2.8 and a EF 70-200mm f2.8  Canon "L" lenses.  My goto and workhorse combo.  That is as good as it gets.  There is nothing better on the planet.

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

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182 REPLIES 182

Hey Bigs.  I've been doing just what you said, so don't fret my friend.  I just told Bob the same thing.  I'll keep going to the park as you suggest.  I really agree with you, that there will always be interesting things to shoot.  I even have some squrrel pals that I feed peanuts when I go.   I just thought a change of scenery would be refreshing.  And I'm sure some at the park do call me "That Mad Camera Guy" LOL.   Many think I'm taking their pics, some don't like that if they see me.  Some seem to not care, and a few seem to like it and let me shoot them.  Many go there to fish, other to meditate, some walk their dogs.  It's a very beautiful park, very scenic, and the water looks lovely certain days, and times of day.  Right now I will get PSE 13 and go for the full ver. you have later...if i need it.  I have 5 Pc's so I would have them each on 2 different Pc's.  I have 2 Pc's with intel i7 processors, and 8 GB Ram each, so they can handle the processing.  I will get into RAW, but I do want to take my time in all this and not move too fast.  Least not faster than I can internalize all I'm learning.  1 step at a time, Rome was'nt built in a day.  It'll be me, my 60d, 24-105mm f/4l, and PSE 13 when I get it, for awhile. 

 

I put my Rebel up I already told you that, may even sell it, not sure right now.  If I ask questions about lens, apertures, cameras, and such, don't assume I'm looking to buy anything.   I'm just asking to learn, trying to educate myself in the process.  Don't fret my friend, I hate more than you, to throw my money away.  My mom taught me the value of a dollar, that's why I always will try to find the best deal I can get before I will buy anything....period.  And I hate to buy something I really don't need, or can't use.  And the few times It has happened, I return the Item for a refund.

 

One thing puzzels me... you just bought a new Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8 lens, but you already have the same focal range and aperture lens in a Canon.   What's up with that??????????????????????????

Fellas, I'm trying to learn what does the elements, groups, and blades mean, and what makes either better over the other.    I know higher # in any catagory is better than lessor #.    But I run into lens where one lens will have bigger # in one catagory and lower # in another catagory.   Some are Higher # in elements and groups, but less blades.  I know if "all" #' are bigger in all catagory's, it's better lens than another len's with lower #' in all catagory's.   .I'm trying to learn how to determine the better lens when comparing.


@jazzman1 wrote:

Fellas, I'm trying to learn what does the elements, groups, and blades mean, and what makes either better over the other.    I know higher # in any catagory is better than lessor #.    But I run into lens where one lens will have bigger # in one catagory and lower # in another catagory.   Some are Higher # in elements and groups, but less blades.  I know if "all" #' are bigger in all catagory's, it's better lens than another len's with lower #' in all catagory's.   .I'm trying to learn how to determine the better lens when comparing.


Elements is the number of pieces of glass that light goes through in its traversal of the lens. Groups is the way the elements are arranged in the lens. Neither of those matters to you; it's just bragging. What matters is the lens's actual performance, and that's related to, but not derivable from, the number of elements and their arrangement.

 

Blades is the number of separate sheets of metal that form the lens's variable aperture. More is usually better; because the aperture can be made more nearly round, and a rounder aperture usually makes the out-of-focus parts of a scene more visually appealing.

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA

"... you just bought a new Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8 lens, but you already have the same focal range and aperture lens in a Canon."

 

Yes I did.  I also have/had the Tokina 70-200mm f2.8.  As I have stated "playing" with the gear is where I am at.  I no longer am working with my photography.  Except on a few occasions when the oppertinity is there.

Actually I had the Tokina as it is gone.  It is not ready for prine time and not a buy as far as I am concerned.  The Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG APO OS HSM is a "best buy".  It is a very good lens and is a grand less than my beloved Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM which is the best lens made. Period, nough said.

 

But I bought the Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD Lens about a year ago.  I found it to be a pretty good lens for the money.  It is not the best lens. But for the money, it too, is a "best buy".  In the past Tamrons have been pretty much junk.  I would not even say the name let alone use one or, good lord, buy one.  They have made strides that has to have Canon engineeres concerned at least if I were a Canon engineer, I would be.  Sigma and Tamron have been making extremely high quality lenses for less money, usually.  Plus they don't know how a Canon camera works!

Tokina has not gotten the word and still is to be avoided, IMHO, of course.  Tokin's CS is nonexistent.

 

So far the Tammy is showing its stuff.  Pretty hard to complain about it.  It is fast.  It is silent.  And, it is sharp as a tack.

See the horse below.  It is a 100% crop of the eye.  100% is usually considered max and is where you judge a lens' IQ.

 

_DSC5215.jpg

 

This is from a 12 MP camera and is hand held.  Pretty impressive!  No processing except for crop and conversion to jpg from RAW.

As of this moment I still recommend the Sigma as the "best buy" if the Canon's price is out of the question.  But if you absolutely have to have the best there is, get the Canon EF. 

 

Most of the time the number of aperture blades is a non-factor.  It only deals with OOF bachground and Bokeh.

 

A lens is just that, a lens.  It is nothing more than a piece of glass or other transparent substance with curved sides for concentrating or dispersing light rays.  People think that a lens is the big black, or white in Canon's world, tube.  It is not.  It is the piece of glass that is at the front of that tube.  All the other pieces of glass, or elements, are for correcting the point of impact of the various light rays.  Some allow for focus adjustment, too.  The lens, or front element, would do its job whether it had the tube around it or not.

 

A word about not going RAW right off.  There is no reason anymore for not shooting RAW right from the get go.  You got everything you need with your camera to do so.  The conversion is seemless and is done when you transfer to the computer you are so adapt at.  If you had a fire to put out and you had a gallon bucket full of water would you dump half of it on the ground before you got to the fire?  That is what you are doing if you shoot jpg.  You are throwing away a vast amount of picture data before you ever get to use it.  jpg is for cell phones and ipads and Facebook, not for a DSLR.

 

One more word of caution, don't take pictures of people's (strangers) children.  Never do that! Never do that! Never do that! Never do that! Never do that! Never do that! Never do that! Never do that! Never do that! Never do that! Never do that!

Got the point?  Adults or people of 18 to 20 or so, and older are fair game.  They have no expectation of privacy rights in a public place (park).  However, don't be that guy that gives all photographers a bad wrap.  Be respectful.

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

BTW, if you were in my DSLR 101 class, you would be forced to shoot RAW.  Just to let you know.  I make everybody use it.

So far, you basicly have my course!  Smiley Happy

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

So Bob, I take it generally round blades would indicate better lens???   And generally more elements & over groups are better also.  But rounded blades are the better indicator of quality!!!!  

I'll put the tammy on my long range wish list (i like that range) sounds and looks like a goodie, with either the Sigma or Canon 70-200 coming 1st.  Probably be the Sigma since you praise it so much at 1/2 the price of the Canon.   But I do want to stay with Canon much as I can regardless of price...if I can afford Canon.  I love my Canons.  You can't go wrong with Canon my friend.   That pic of the horse's eye does look sharp, how far away were you????

 

  Have no idea what you mean by "playing with the gear".  Were you waiting for me to ask ????   I'm sure you must have known I did'nt have a clue (LOL).  Still in all, I wonder why you have so many lens of the same focal, and aperture range????   Now that don't make sense to me unless you just got the money to burn!!!!!   I do understand liking our toys (LOL)

 

Never said I would'nt get into RAW now, nor is that what I meant.  I just meant I would take things slow so as to absob it well.   You and Bob are giving me alot of info and I don't want to get ahead of myself.  I'm also getting info elsewhere, I do google.  When I learn something I want to know it well and not 1/2 way, and trying to go faster than I'm able to comprehend stuff.  I've known about RAW ever since I got my Rebel, but the files are so big it was difficult to send in email.  Takes longer to upload too.  I stayed with jpeg so files were'nt so big.  But guess I will get into RAW.  But I will have to get PSE 13 st.  I will not get premere at this time since you don't even know what it's for.   That's money I can save if I don't need it for my pics.  It maybe as you say for video's. I'll google it.

 

Thanks for the tip on taking pics of the kids.  I have been guilty of that, but only cause they were in the frame of what I actually was shooting at.  Lots of kids are at the 2 the parks, I go to everyday ( they're about a 1/2 mile apart....same folks go to both), parents who live by bring them to play everyday.  More pre-teens at one than the other though....at the other more adults.   That's one of the reasons I wanted to look for someplace else to shoot.  I'd like a nice setting like this park (which is beautiful) where it won't be so congested with people, especially kids.  They're not very big parks....the well to do who live around them, had the city build them long ago, thought they could keep them private for  themselves.   But the City told them they could not keep the public away cause public funds paid for and built them.   I do understand concerns from parents and just in general taking pics of kids.  I will be extra careful from now on.   Not as many kids on school days while school is in.  Don't know about your town but here (JSV. Florida) almost everywhere one goes you're on camera.  Very few places you won't be on candit camera, from shopping malls, to Downtown, gas stations, to public parks....anywhere any businesses are located.  And I suspect many residential areas have cameras.  Even on traffic lights..


@jazzman1 wrote:

So Bob, I take it generally round blades would indicate better lens???

 

More blades. A rounder hole is what's wanted; and the more blades you use, the rounder the hole will be. Sometimes they cut a rounded shape into the blades; sometimes not.

 

And generally more elements & over groups are better also.

 

No, I didn't say that. It depends a lot on the skill and preferences of the lens designer. Obviously, the manufacturer wants to keep costs down, and a lens with lots of elements is likely to be more expensive to make. Sometimes special types of glass can be used to cut down on the number of alements, but special glass can be expensive. Some types are very expensive.

 

But rounded blades are the better indicator of quality!!!!

 

No, I didn't say that either. Recall that Ernie Biggs used the word "bokeh" (another esoteric term in photography) in one of his recent posts in this thread. It refers to how pleasing the out-of-focus areas (if any) of the picture are to the eye. Those who specialize in such things claim that a polygonal lens opening results in unpleasant bokeh. So manufacturers try to make the opening as nearly round as possible. But bokeh is only one of many factors that contribute to the overall quality of a lens. A lens can have good bokeh and be lousy in other respects (sharpness, contrast, vignetting, etc.).  


 

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA

Thanks Bob for the info.  I guess there's no good way for me to tell if a lens is really tops, other than trying it for myself and reading reviews. 

 

BTW.... I took some shots today and got varing results.  Most of my shots at the park are all pretty much good, fall in the same space of good shots give or take a back one here or there.  Today I got a chance to take a couple's pic, they posed for me.  My pics were fine around 10 ft away as usual.  But when I moved in close, maybe to a couple ft, the pic was very bright, had a washed out look.  I tried to adjust my exposure compensation with no luck.  The pic came out either too light, or too dark.  What is it I did wrong???   What do I need to do for closeups???    It was very cloudy today, even sprinkled a little rain.  Usually very sunny when I go there.   My pics were fine farther away.   Maybe I should stand back and zoom in with my lens. 

"Have no idea what you mean by "playing with the gear"

 

I buy gear, lenses and cameras, to play with.  Not to use like most if not all of you out there.  This is my hobby now.  At this point our goals are totally different.  I want to know the ins and outs of as much of this stuff as I can.  If I don't like something, I sell it and move on.  Never used to do that.  The fact that I have dups in several focal lengths is because the lenses are so good they have found a home here.  I just sold my 1D Mk III so that let me buy the Tamron SP 70-200mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Zoom Lens.  So far, just a few days worth, it is going to find a home here, too.  I may even recommend it later on if it still impresses me.  Not made of money or have money to burn.  But remember I did have a company that did.

 

The hourse picture was from about 10 to 12 feet at 70mm.  Pretty darn sharp!

 

"... but the files are so big it was difficult to send in email."

 

You don't email RAW.  If you did people may not be able to see them anyway.  You email the jpg you make from a RAW file.  The RAW file does not exist after your editor.  The difference is you control the output and not your camera.  The camera can not see your photo.  You can.  You decide how it looks.  You decide how it is used and the format.  You are not unusual in this as I have resistance from folks using RAW.  Some just will not.  And if they are that against it, I don't push it any further.  Either you want the best or you don't.  Its your choice.  Are you going to buy that $2500 dollar Canon 70-200mm f2.8 lens and than put black tape over half the front element?  I don't think so but that is what you are doing if you shoot jpg.

 

All camera brands come with a post editor of sorts, if the camera offers RAW support.  I am not versed in every brand as 90% of the people I see, or have seen I mean, use Canon or Nikon.  And Canon is by far the biggest percentage.

 

If this park is as full of kids and children under 18 as you say, you probably do need to find another place to shoot.  If someone complains, you could even be arrested.  I can't stress this enough.

 

One thing that is confusing you so much is your contridiction of views and advise.  It is fine to get different views but at this early learning stage you really need to decide on and depend on one or two.  Of course all this is up to you, using RAW or not, googling everything, reading reviews, f-stops and focal lengths, etc, but not to the point of confusion.

The best thing is to get into a class with a good instructor and do as they inform.  After you get the basic understanding, than you can venture out and get all the opposing views and thoughts.  Just not now.

 

"... the horse's eye does look sharp, how far away were you????"  

 

This statement shows you still do not understand why this photo is significant.  And that is just from not enough experience and knowledge yet.  It will come but I believe you are getting confusing points of view and that is stymining you. Everybody on the web are not as great a teacher as Bob from Boston and me!  Smiley Very Happy  <-----joke inserted here

 

DICISION TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!
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