Canon Community Canon Community
 


Reply
VIP
Posts: 8,471
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Bokeh has parallel lines with 100-400 f4.5-5.6 and slower autofocus


@TTMartin wrote:

@mfostervt wrote:

Thanks for all the advice. I guess the filter is definitely suspect.  I am shooting with a Canon 70 D and my lens is the latest version (II).  I got the filter as a freebie from Adorama when I bought the lens.  I put it on to protect the lens, but may be better off buying a good filter.  I will definitely give it a try without a filter and get back with you all after I do that.  I've read a little about the AFMA, but never tried it as it seemed pretty complex. I take most bird photos as aperature priority with auto ISO and set the shutter to about 400 depending on if I am using a monopod or if I am trying to get a bird in flight.  I have not looked at the IS modes yet, but right now it is set on 1.   BTW, this pic was cropped to about 1\3 the original so that may affect the bokeh as well.  Thanks again.


It is most definately the cheap filter. The cheap filter may be interacting with the image stabilization to create the pattern, but, the culpret is the cheap filter not the IS.

 

I ordered a B+W 77mm XS-Pro Clear with Multi-Resistant Nano Coating (007M) for my new EF 100-400 L IS II.

 

I treat a protective filter as an extra lens cap. I remove it in environments where it is not need and leave it on at places where it is (i.e. the beach).

 

I've only had it for a few days, but, no weird bokeh and no AFMA needed that I can tell. If I do need AFMA I'll use the DotTune method.

 

 


That's the same filter I use on mine.  Be sure to spend the extra 2-3 bucks for the "Nano" coated lens.  I love the filters.  Not only do they protect the first element of the lens, they seem to be anti-static, too.  It's spring time, and there is a lot of various types of pollen in the air in my area, New York City.  Nothing sticks to the filter, even though it gets all over my car and eyeglasses.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
VIP
Posts: 11,491
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: Bokeh has parallel lines with 100-400 f4.5-5.6 and slower autofocus

"I recently upgraded from a prime 400 5.6 to the 100-400 4.5-5.6."

 

I forgot a most important question(s).  You didn't see this with the 400 prime?  And you don't see it with your other lenses?

What do you use to post edit?  And lastly, you are shooting RAW?  I am looking for jpg compression artifacts!?!

EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and several lenses!
Occasional Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎02-19-2015

Re: Bokeh has parallel lines with 100-400 f4.5-5.6 and slower autofocus

I didn't see it with the prime and I have to admit that I had a crappy filter on it as well, but not the same one.  I think that the softness of my images with the prime and this new lens had everything to do with the filters.  Not sure why I didn't think of that.  I have taken some images today and have not seen any of the bokeh problem yet, but it was only in certain conditions that it came through before.  More images will hopefully show the difference.  I tried some shots of a nesting Great Blue that is pretty far off this morning and found that the images are defintely better, not as soft.  Much better than images of the same thing with the filter on.   Here is a pic that I took this morning sans filter and the non-cropped original image.

 

I am shooting RAW and using Lightroom for processing.  It converts the RAW to DNG when importing.GreatBlueHeron-1-160606.jpgGreatBlueHeron-1-160606-2.jpg

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 2,343
Registered: ‎11-14-2012

Re: Bokeh has parallel lines with 100-400 f4.5-5.6 and slower autofocus

Some of the softness there is likely atmospheric haze / humidity.

"A skill is developed through constant practice with a passion to improve, not bought."
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,119
Registered: ‎02-06-2013

Re: Bokeh has parallel lines with 100-400 f4.5-5.6 and slower autofocus

[ Edited ]

@mfostervt wrote:

I didn't see it with the prime and I have to admit that I had a crappy filter on it as well, but not the same one.  I think that the softness of my images with the prime and this new lens had everything to do with the filters.  Not sure why I didn't think of that.  I have taken some images today and have not seen any of the bokeh problem yet, but it was only in certain conditions that it came through before.  More images will hopefully show the difference.  I tried some shots of a nesting Great Blue that is pretty far off this morning and found that the images are defintely better, not as soft.  Much better than images of the same thing with the filter on.   Here is a pic that I took this morning sans filter and the non-cropped original image.

 

I am shooting RAW and using Lightroom for processing.  It converts the RAW to DNG when importing.


I'd like to suggest the following:

 

1.  I have long ago got rid of all of my protective filters and rely on the hoods for protection.

 

2.  Based on your pictures, you cropped WAY TOO MUCH.  For good BIF images, do not crop.  I never crop anymore except for compositional purposes...if they are too small, they get trashed.

 

3.  Even for the non-cropped image, I'd say Image Quality (IQ) is a tad below average from what I've seen for this lens which is touted by most as the holy grail of telephoto lenses.  It's IQ rivals that of the 400mm f/5.6L.  You might want to use a faster shutter speed. I'd start at 1/1000 or faster.

 

I'm contemplating on getting a 100-400mm II to replace my Tamron 150-600mm.  It's unanimous that the 100-400mm II is way sharper...Even so...below is a shot taken with the 7DII and the Tamron 150-600mm (500mm; f/6.3; 1/2000;  ISO 320) to give you an idea what being close (no cropping) and without a protective filter is capable of, even with a not so good lens...

24139417675_dd7b51eec3_b.jpg

 

================================================
Visit my photos on Flickr
www.flickr.com/photos/tongho58

================================================
Diverhank's photos on Flickr
VIP
Posts: 11,491
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: Bokeh has parallel lines with 100-400 f4.5-5.6 and slower autofocus

"Some of the softness there is likely atmospheric haze / humidity."

 

Bingo!  Anytime you shoot that far away the atmosphere is not your friend.  Especially over water.

The lens is not the 'holy grail' of zooms. It is right dab in the same IQ range as most of the better zooms like this.

The Tamron 150-600 and Sigma twins 150-600 all do about the exact same quality.

 

You are too far away. Of that there is no doubt. Always use the hood, never take it off.  The bottom picture is fine for the distance.  The top one is enlarged too much for the conditions.  Plus you probably downsized it for the web.

 

Here is a Blue Heron I shot from around 40 to 50 feet.  It was done with my 1D Mk IV and the Sigma S at 600mm.

 

_52D2885-Edit.jpg

 

I softened the exposure of the background in PS and applied lens correction.  This guy was truck'in, I mean!

 

 

EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and several lenses!
VIP
Posts: 11,491
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: Bokeh has parallel lines with 100-400 f4.5-5.6 and slower autofocus

You can do extreme enlargments. But you must select the right ones.  Cropping or enlarging costs you in sharpness.

_52D2816.jpg

 

I don't remember exactly how much this one was but it was a lot.  I was again pretty close so it was a good candidate.

My trusty 1D Mk IV and the big Siggy at 600mm.

BTW, I use filters on all my lenses that they don't impact. I always have a I always will most likely.  The SIgma doesn't have one because it has a special coating on the front element which is huge.  A filter would coat a boat load of money.

EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and several lenses!
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,967
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Bokeh has parallel lines with 100-400 f4.5-5.6 and slower autofocus

[ Edited ]

@diverhank wrote:

I'd like to suggest the following:

 

1.  I have long ago got rid of all of my protective filters and rely on the hoods for protection.

 

2.  Based on your pictures, you cropped WAY TOO MUCH.  For good BIF images, do not crop.  I never crop anymore except for compositional purposes...if they are too small, they get trashed.

 

3.  Even for the non-cropped image, I'd say Image Quality (IQ) is a tad below average from what I've seen for this lens which is touted by most as the holy grail of telephoto lenses.  It's IQ rivals that of the 400mm f/5.6L.  You might want to use a faster shutter speed. I'd start at 1/1000 or faster.

 


@Taken today with the 7D Mk II and EF 100-400 L IS II @ 400mm with the B+W CLEAR MRC-Nano 

 

light crop for composition 

A00A2420.jpg

 

uncropped

A00A2444.jpg

Occasional Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎02-19-2015

Re: Bokeh has parallel lines with 100-400 f4.5-5.6 and slower autofocus

[ Edited ]

Thanks all for the great advice.  I hate to crop, but birds being birds, I wind up cropping just because I want to see the bird and not all the background and so far I have found that I can't get close enough to fill the viewfinder without scaring off the bird.  Some warblers only stay in the very top of the canopy.  Being a beginning birder, I need to identify the bird and the only way I can do this often is by cropping the photo so I can see the detail of the bird.  I totally get that there is loss of detail by doing this, but my objective is first to ID the bird, and secondly to walk away with a good photo.

 

This pic is a couple of Heron nests that I have been watching since the birds moved in in the early spring.  Today was the first day I saw some chicks in one of the nests.  The other the female is still incubating the eggs.  The only way I can get closer is on kayak, which I plan on doing soon but I did not want to disturb the mothers in their task of getting their chicks born.

 

With that said, yes I had to really crop the photo just to see the birds.  Loss of detail is a given at this distance.  It was also a bit foggy this morning, so that just added to the haze.

 

Here are a few images I took this evening sans filter with little cropping.  Shutter priority at 400 and Auto ISO.  The hooded merganser chicks were on our pond, and I stumbled upon the wild turkey chick while crossing one of our fields.  Probably just hatched.  Mom played the broken wing gambit on me before I found the chicks (but I was looking for a nest)

 

I tried linking to my SmugMug acct.  so the files should come across as not reduced ( I exported the previous photo at 200K)

 

Thanks again to eveyone who has chimed in to help me out.  I think the filter was my problem, but I still need a day in the field to really try it out.  I'm a dentist, so my time in the wild is limited during the week.

 

https://photos.smugmug.com/Bird-ID/i-JQ5CfZJ/0/X3/HoodedMerganser-1-160606-X3.jpghttps://photos.smugmug.com/Bird-ID/i-3F6Dhzd/0/X3/Dragonfly-1-160606-X3.jpghttps://photos.smugmug.com/Bird-ID/i-BnBtkC9/0/X3/Wildturkey-1-160606-X3.jpg

 

Awesome shots of the great blue  TT Martin.  I'm not sure how you got so close without disturbing the bird.

 

 

VIP
Posts: 8,471
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Bokeh has parallel lines with 100-400 f4.5-5.6 and slower autofocus

[ Edited ]

"Thanks all for the great advice.  I hate to crop, but birds being birds, I wind up cropping just because I want to see the bird and not all the background and so far I have found that I can't get close enough to fill the viewfinder without scaring off the bird.  Some warblers only stay in the very top of the canopy.  Being a beginning birder, I need to identify the bird and the only way I can do this often is by cropping the photo so I can see the detail of the bird.  I totally get that there is loss of detail by doing this, but my objective is first to ID the bird, and secondly to walk away with a good photo."  

 

Great photos is always about location, and angles.  I am not a birder, either.  But, I used to be an avid fisherman, which taught me a few things about hunting.  I have found that there are quite a number of similarities between birding and fishing.  First and foremost, it all boils down to not just getting to a good location, but also WHEN you get there.

 

Fishermen get an early start, and make a point to be on the water, waiting for the fish to wake up hungry.  If the fisherman gets their late, the fish have already finished feeding, and are taking naps, which usually means they are done for the day, and easily spooked from their naps.  The fish run and hide.  It's the same with birds, and just about any other creature you're hunting.

 

As you've noted, you cannot just walk up on a nest.  You need to scout your location, and then get there early enough to be one with the surroundings before the birds wake up and become alert to their surroundings.  THAT is how you can get close to creatures in the wild.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
powered by Lithium

LIKE US on Facebook FOLLOW US on Twitter WATCH US on YouTube CONNECT WITH US on Linkedin WATCH US on Vimeo FOLLOW US on Instagram SHOP CANON at the Canon Online Store
© Canon U.S.A., Inc.   |    Terms of Use   |    Privacy Statement