How can I use a 70D with a 580 EX II, 580 EX, and Yongnuo 568 EX II?

[Preston]

I'm trying to figure out how I can use my 70D with a 580 EX II, 580 EX, and Yongnuo 568 EX II simultaneously (with cords). I know I can use two of them at the same time, but the problem is I don't see a PC Sync port on my 70D where I can attach the third one. Is it there but I'm just not seeing it? 

And does anyone have any advice on how I can use all three of these flashes at the same time?

Thanks

[Preston]

Funny you should mention the Yongnuo RF-622... I was just looking at them online earlier. However in the description it said they would work with the Canon 580 EX II, Yongnuo 568 EX II, but left out whether they'd work with the Canon 580 EX. So at this point I'm not sure whether the RF-622 would work with all three of my flashes or not. I don't know how complicated the RF-622 is to learn how to use, but it would be one more thing for me to have to learn I guess. 

I just bought a 10 meter straight cable to connect the master flash to to get it off the camera. I'm thinking now maybe I should have gone with four Yongnuo RF-622s...

Thanks for the reply 🙂

[Skirball]

Cables work fine for one flash, but any more than that and wireless really is easier.  I don't think the 622's are particularly hard to use, it's just that the owners manual is crap.  Luckily there's plenty of instruction online because of it.  Flashhavoc.com had a pretty good "manual".  Personally I just popped the batteries in and was up and running.

The 622 should work fine with the first generation 580ex, but I can't say for sure.  The first gen flashes didn't have in-camera control, so you couldn't set power levels from your camera, but I don't see why eTTL wouldn't work.  At bare minimum it would at least work in manual mode with that flash, but I'd really expect it to do eTTL too.

Not to complicate it even further, but Yongnuo recently released a more advanced master unit for the 622:

http://flashhavoc.com/yongnuo-yn-622c-tx-now-available/

It has a screen and a basic interface so you can set groups and channels, and even set power levels right on the master unit.  I can't say I've tried it myself (I would, but I recently bought the YN-560-TX and couldn't justify yet another trigger purchase.  Maybe for the holidays :), but it looks worth the added cost.  Then you'd need 3 of the standard 622 for the flashes.

[Skirball]

I just noticed the 622s went up to $80 a set (I might have got mine on sale, I don't remember).  At that cost, I would definitely get that master controller if it's only $10 more.

I know it's a bit of an investment, but it's a fraction of the cost of the alternative brands.  It's also nothing short of awesome - but you won't fully appreciate that until you futzed around with a bunch of wires connected to flashes in modifiers in flimsy stands all crammed into a little room.

[Preston]

I just ran across some info here http://flashhavoc.com/yn622c_review/ about whether my flashes will work with the Yongnuo 622C and 622TX or not, pasted below. I'm not sure exactly what it means, other than my Canon 580 EX II and Yongnuo 568 EX II will work but the 580 EX will only work partially (all this flash stuff with "groups" and "global FEC" and setting manual power levels, etc., is all still brand new to me).

Flash Compatibility

Full Remote Control

Flashes that will support remote flash control through the camera menu.
Manual – Full Remote Manual Power Control in 3 groups from the camera menu.
ETTL – Full ETT Ratio Control and FEC in 3 groups from the camera menu.

Canon - 600EX(RT), 580EX II, 430EX II, 320EX, 270EX II
Phottix – Mitros
YongNuo (with HSS) – YN568EX II, YN568EX, YN500EX
YongNuo (without HSS) – YN565EX C, YN565 II C, YN468 II C, YN467 II C, YN465 C
Nissin (with HSS) – Di866 II – may require a factory settings reset to function correctly (and in manual etc) with the 622c
Metz – 58 AF-2, 48 AF-1 (possibly AF-56 and AF-50 yet to be confirmed)

Partial Control

Flashes that do not support remote manual flash control through the camera menu.
Manual – You must set the manual power level directly on the flash.
ETTL – Global FEC control is available from the camera. Ratios may be available, though individual FEC can also be set directly on each flash to achieve a ratio if needed.

Canon – 580EX, 550EX, 430EX
Metz – 54mz4, 54mz3 (requires M5 firmware in the SCA foot)
Nissin (without HSS) – Di622 II
Nissin (with HSS) – Di866
Sigma – 500 DG Super, 530 DG Super
Sunpak – PZ42X – Confirmed ETTL and FEC from the camera – No HSS

[Preston]

Please note I had to edit that last post. If you read it before I corrected the model numbers given you might want to re-read it again.

So anyway, after studying and reading about this for the past 2-3 days I'm pretty confused about what to do/what to get now...

At this point (which is subject to change - LOL) I'm thinking about getting a 622C-TX with three 622Cs and sending back the 10 meter cord. I'm guessing there'd be no need for it (plus I'd get $71 back). That should give me the ability to keep everything wireless... the only thing I'm wondering about is what shortcomings the 580 EX might have by using the 622's.

[Skirball · Accepted solution]

You've been busy.  Ok, easiest question first:

$71 for the cable?  Hah!  Send it back!!!  No question about it.  That's a set of 622s right there, which can do everything that cable can, and more.

Yes, that information that you saw on Flash Havoc is exactly what I was referring to in my post above.  What it means is that you cannot control flash power of the 580ex (original) through the camera menu.  For your other flashes you can actually go into your camera's flash menu and adjust power remotely with the YN-622.  However, that new transmitter allows you to do it on the transmitter instead of scrolling through menus - much, much easier.  Most likely you won't be able to do that for the 580ex (original) but it should still fire fine.  I'm guessing that it should even work in eTTL, but I'm guessing.  If I'm correct then there won't be any difference with your flashes when in eTTL mode.  In manual mode you could remotely adjust the power of your 580ex II and 568 II, but not the 580 ex (original).

As to what to do now, well that's up to you.  If this is all too overwhelming for you then perhaps step back, do some research and hold off until you feel comfortable.  My recommendation hasn't changed.  The 622s are the way to go if you want eTTL (if you want manual only you could go even cheaper).

That link you posted from eBay is good.  Too good actually.  Yongnuo has an eBay account, that's where they started actually, and their prices are higher than that.  The seller has a good rep, but buy at your own risk.  Personally, I'd rather pay $10 more and get it from Amazon (with 2 day delivery if you're a prime member).

I found a combo with the LED master for the same price as the 622s:

http://www.amazon.com/YN-622C-KIT-YN622C-KIT-including-Controller-Transceiver/dp/B00NW3KNZO/ref=sr_1...

And then you just get a set of 622s, also for $80:

http://www.amazon.com/Yongnuo-Wireless-Receiver-Transmitter-Transceiver/dp/B0090BSSZO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=...

3 eTTL off-camera flashes with remote power control for $160.  Wouldn't even be a down payment for a single Canon 600ex-RT.

[Preston]

Sorry for the repetitive posts above. I re-read them and saw I repeated myself a couple times. You know how beginners are... sometimes we get a little obsessive. Anyway, THANK YOU SO MUCH for all the info! It has really helped! I really appreciate you (and everyone else who has replied to this thread too) taking the time to help me.

I think what I'll do is take your suggestion and send the 10m cable back and get the Yongnuo 622s. The reason I got the cable was because I'm reading a book on speedlighting now and while I think it's a very good book, over and over in it it says you need a cable to get the flash off the camera. I was just thinking it would be simpler that way for me at first before I'd delve into doing it wirelessly and having to learn something else now too like radio transmitters. Then I found out that the author himself is selling the cables on another site that he suggests you get in the book. Now I see I can do it wirelessly and with radio signals too instead of optically which sounds like the way to go.

I spend all my time learning now... watching instructional DVDs, reading books, reading online, going to local photography group meetings, etc. I have a stack of 40 books and a dozen DVDs here with many hours each of instruction on them, so I'm kinda overwhelmed with all I've been taking in lately. But I really want to try to get the flash thing nailed down before moving on to other subjects. 

Now that I know a little more, I see I can do it wirelessly and with radio signals too instead of optically which sounds like the way to go. I spend all my time learning now... watching instructional DVDs, reading books, reading online, etc. I have a stack of 40 books and a dozen DVDs here with many hours each of instruction on them, so I'm kinda overwhelmed with all I've been taking in lately. But I really want to try to get the flash thing nailed down before moving on to other subjects. Once I get the Yongnuos I may have other questions though. Judging from the indecipherable manual I got with the 568 EX II I suspect the manual for the 622s will be just as bad.  

Stupid question... but what's a good definition of "group" in terms of flashes? That has me confused.

I don't want to get this thread off on an unrelated tangent here, so maybe I should make a new post for this, but I have a couple other unrelated questions about my 70D. Sometimes I try to take a picture and it just won't fire. I don't know why. Other times I have an exclamation mark appear in the lower right of my viewfinder when it won't fire. Any idea what's going on with that? If you think I should make a new post out of this just let me know.

Thanks again for all your help (and everyone else too who replied). I can't thank you enough!

[Skirball]

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@Preston wrote:

The reason I got the cable was because I'm reading a book on speedlighting now and while I think it's a very good book, over and over in it it says you need a cable to get the flash off the camera. I was just thinking it would be simpler that way for me at first before I'd delve into doing it wirelessly and having to learn something else now too like radio transmitters.

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Nothing to feel bad about, I did the exact same thing.   And I still have an eTTL cable that I've used twice sitting in the bottom of my gear drawer.  Looking at the OCF website looks like I probably paid about $50 for it, and I remember I had the shipping expedited...  so probably cost me about $70 as well.

Wow, that's a lot of books and DVDs.  No wonder you're overwhelmed.  Might want to slow down a bit.  It'll really help to get your hands on wireless units (though you can use the Canon optical system in the mean time) and start playing around with it.  Then go back to the books and whatnot in sections, once you're more familiar with it.  You'll probably learn more and it'll be less stressful.

And if you haven't found this yet:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

He probably covers just about everything you'll find in all those books and DVDs.  Great resource.

[Skirball]

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@Preston wrote:

Stupid question... but what's a good definition of "group" in terms of flashes? That has me confused.

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Well, it's a group of flashes, although a group can have a single flash in it.  It's a way to organize sets of flashes for adjustment.   Every flash in a group will have the same power  settings. But if you're only using three flashes, then you'd probably give each flash it's own group (although IIRC Canon has some limitations as to what you can do with Group C in eTTL).

In eTTL mode you set power ratios.  For example, you tell it that you want Group A to be 2 times as powerful (1 stop) as Group B and 4 times (2 stops) Group C.  A would be your Key light, B your fill, and C your background light (just as a general example, there are no rules).  It would look like this (A:B:C) -  4:2:1  The camera then determines how much light it thinks it needs and calculates how strong to make each group given that ratio.

In manual mode you just adjust the power level of the entire group, 1/1 being full power of any flash in that group.  So say you decide that your key light needs to be 1/4 power.  You set Group A (a single key light) to 1/4 power, your second flash gets assigned to Group B at 1/8 (one stop less) for fill, and then you have a couple accent lights assigned to Group C that you set to 1/16 (two stops lower than A) for background lighting.  These are just example numbers to mimic what was set in the eTTL example above. 4:2:1 ratio.

[Preston]

That makes sense to me now. You really cleared that up for me. And thanks for the link to the strobist site. I had run across that before, read a little on it, and wanted to go back to it but couldn't remember the name of it. You're right, there is a lot of good info there for a beginner. You're full of all sorts of good info.

Thanks again for all your help!