upgrade from a 60D to an 80D?

[BlairW]

I own a 60D my only DSLR, I’m thinking about buying an 80D. my 60D would be a backup then. Is a 80D worth the upgrade? thanks, Blair

[TTMartin]

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@diverhank wrote:

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@TTMartin wrote:

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Much improved sensor - the 80D sports a new sensor that has much better dynamic range (DR) with one extra stop of ISO performance, including the ability to push the darks/shadows from less than 2 stops to 5 stops - a huge improvement.  This makes the 80D way better than anything Canon has (except the 1DXII and 5DIV) in this department.

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The big difference between the 7D Mk II's sensor and the 80D's sensor, is the 80D scores better on the test. In real world (provided you know how to process the 7D Mk II) there is no difference. 

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You must be talking about the DxO tests....there I agree with you.  However, I am not sure I'd agree with you that there is no difference.  I've seen the samples...they do look a lot better in actual shadows push.

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The very first day out with my 7D Mk II didn't have it set up properly when a Mallard decided to do a low pass between my wife who had stopped to take photos and myself. I swung the 7D Mk II up and fired off some shots. What I ended up getting was at least 4 stops under exposed. While the after processing photo (LR only) is far from perfect (slight banding in the bokeh), and I used way more noise reduction then I normally would, it was good enough for Facebook. And it was good enough that my sister picked it out to have printed on a mug as a Christmas gift.

[Waddizzle]

One of my sons has a new granddaughter, and he preferred the 7D Mark II.  He likes the frame rate and the ISO performance compared to the T5 that he started with.

My otner son is an executive chef who likes to take shots of his finished plates, and shoot food prep videos.  He preferred the 80D.  He really likes the tilt screen when shooting video.  Hey, he started with a T3i.

Both bodies take great photos.  There is something to be said in favor of the noise reduction from the dual processors in a 7D2, just as there is something to be said in favor ot the 24MP resolution 80D and its' video focusing abilities. 

Both are pretty good at what the other is better at.  In fact, they're both really good.  The 7D is better weather sealed, and has dual memory card slots.  Me?  I'm not a big fan of the twisting, tilting LCD screen.  I'll take the 7D2.

[Peter]

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@TTMartin wrote:

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Much improved sensor - the 80D sports a new sensor that has much better dynamic range (DR) with one extra stop of ISO performance, including the ability to push the darks/shadows from less than 2 stops to 5 stops - a huge improvement.  This makes the 80D way better than anything Canon has (except the 1DXII and 5DIV) in this department.

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Honestly, there has been way to much made about dynamic range in cameras in general. There is a testing company who's tests Canon didn't perform particularly well on. This wasn't because the Canon sensors didn't have similar dynamic range to other companies, it was because Canon's CR2 files were RAWer than other manufactures. So Canon tweaked their RAW files using the same techniques that other companies have always used, making their CR2 files less RAW so they perform better on the test. 

The 7D Mk II's sensor with older RAWer CR2 file has just as much usable dynamic range as the newer less RAW, CR2 file of the 80D. The difference is their are some very specific techniques you need to use with the older CR2 files, to emulate what gets baked into the newer CR2 file (and other companies RAW files too). 

The big difference between the 7D Mk II's sensor and the 80D's sensor, is the 80D scores better on the test. In real world (provided you know how to process the 7D Mk II) there is no difference. 

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You mean this has nothing to to with on-chip AD converter?

[TTMartin]

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@Peter wrote:

You mean this has nothing to to with on-chip AD converter?

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Is there any 'proof' that Canon went to an on-chip AD converter. Or is that only conjecture from Dynamic Range Review to fit their narrative why Canon did poorly on tests in the past? 

From Dynamic Range Review about the 80D, 'The sensors in the EOS 80D and EOS-1D X Mark II appear to have an on-chip ADC design' 

[Peter]

Just assumed that because of what Masaya Maeda said last September:

"Right now, we use both on-chip and off-chip, but recently I made the decision going forward to concentrate on the on-chip."

[TTMartin]

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@Peter wrote:
Just assumed that because of what Masaya Maeda said last September:

"Right now, we use both on-chip and off-chip, but recently I made the decision going forward to concentrate on the on-chip."

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As of September 2015 neither the 1DX Mk II nor the 80D were on the market. So what cameras was Canon using an on-chip ADC at that time? The 7D Mk II and the 5DS which have very similar sensor performance? Again, I think with the 80D it was tweaking of the CR2 (specifically setting a black point) which changed the test scores. I've seen a consistent increase in usable DR with each generation of Canon camera, that was in spite of the test scores remaining mostly stagnant. 

[Peter]

Found this from the editor of the the Swedish magazine Fotosidan:

5D Mark IV är den tredje kamera från Canon med a/d-omvandlare på samma chip som sensorn. Det ger kortare signalvägar och tydligt större dynamiskt omfång. 1D X Mark II har mäts upp till 13,5 stegs dynamiskt omfång. 5Ds och 5DsR ligger ett steg under och 5D Mark III & 1D X nästan två steg under 1D X Mark II.

A fast translation would be like:

5D Mark IV is the third camera from Canon with A/D on-chip. It gives shorter signals and wider dynamic range. 1D X Mark II was measured to 13,5 stops. 5Ds and 5DsR are one stop below and 5D Mark III and 1D X two stops below the 1D X mark II.

The same editor writes about another thing:

Enligt Canons högste fotochef så har det trolleritricket kostat svettigt mycket pengar ur deras perspektiv.

According to the photo manager (is that a correct translation?) of Canon this has cost a big amount of money. Maybe too much.

[RobertTheFat]

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@Peter wrote:

Found this from the editor of the the Swedish magazine Fotosidan:

5D Mark IV är den tredje kamera från Canon med a/d-omvandlare på samma chip som sensorn. Det ger kortare signalvägar och tydligt större dynamiskt omfång. 1D X Mark II har mäts upp till 13,5 stegs dynamiskt omfång. 5Ds och 5DsR ligger ett steg under och 5D Mark III & 1D X nästan två steg under 1D X Mark II.

A fast translation would be like:

5D Mark IV is the third camera from Canon with A/D on-chip. It gives shorter signals and wider dynamic range. 1D X Mark II was measured to 13,5 stops. 5Ds and 5DsR are one stop below and 5D Mark III and 1D X two stops below the 1D X mark II.

The same editor writes about another thing:

Enligt Canons högste fotochef så har det trolleritricket kostat svettigt mycket pengar ur deras perspektiv.

According to the photo manager (is that a correct translation?) ...

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Close enough, I'd say. If it's not to be read as "someone who cooks photos", the most literal translation of "fotochef" would seem to be "photo chief". 

[Waddizzle]

Are they talking about image sensors or AF sensors?

[Peter]

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@TTMartin wrote:

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 Again, I think with the 80D it was tweaking of the CR2 (specifically setting a black point) which changed the test scores. I've seen a consistent increase in usable DR with each generation of Canon camera, that was in spite of the test scores remaining mostly stagnant. 

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If I don´t remember it wrong Nikon had some thingy in the past about cutting the lowlight. Something that made it an issue to take pictures of stars.