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looking to upgrade to full frame - why should i upgrade to 5d3 vs Nikon d 750?

sumitkar1971
Apprentice

I have been a Pentax enthusiast shooter - looking to upgrade to full frame. I have occasionally shot with a friends' 60d. I like the ergonomics of the canon system - wanting to get some feedback from Canon shooters - Why should i choose the 5d3 as opposed to the nikon d750? - Lower resolution, less dynamic range, older technology and more expensive. Any feedback will be much appreciated

7 REPLIES 7

RexGig
Enthusiast

Welcome to the forum! 

 

"Full-frame" is not so much an upgrade, as a choice. I started with a Canon XTi/400D, and quickly moved to a 40D for a better fit in my hand, and I preferred the semi-pro/pro controls. My two newest DSLRs are a pair of the 7D Mark II, with APS-C sensors, even though I have Nikon D700 and original (2005-era) Canon 5D "full-frame" cameras. At this moment in time, the 7D Mark II offers a superior combination of features that seem best for my needs and desires. The ability to AF in very low light, EV -3, is useful to me, as I shoot evidentiary/forensic crime scene images at night*, and the AF advancements, fast shuuter speed, and deep buffer combine to make for a very accomplished birders' camera.  

 

A "full-frame" camera allows the shooter to shooter with a shallower depth of field, for shooters who wish to take full advantage of the maximum aperture of a particular lens. This does not apply to all types of shooting.

 

Within the same camera generation, all else being equal, a "full-frame" camera will perform better in low light, as the higher ISO settings will result in cleaner images, due to less "noise."  

 

As for dynamic range, a.k.a. DR, if one has enough DR, is more DR capabilty helpful? It is well-known that Nikon cameras presently have more DR capability than Canon cameras. As indicated in a preceding paragraph, above, I already shoot with both Canons and Nikons, so am not susceptible to brand-war arguments. I have yet to feel "DR-limited" when shooting Canon.

 

As for resolution, there is not a significant difference between the 5D Mark III and D750.

 

My internet connection is very bad at the moment, and my right hand and wrist are ailing, so I am going to stop here, for now. This gets the discussion started, and is not intended to be a complete answer.

 

*A lens with a maximum aperture of f/2.8, or wider, is required to take advantage of this ability to AF at EV -3. (The lens opens to its maximum aperture to AF, then closes-down to the set aperture for the shot.) 

Peter
Authority
Authority
For timelapse, thunderstorm pictures and raw video, 5DIII and ML. With ML, you can get same dynamic range as Nikon has, with the price of lower resolution and some noise.

TTMartin
Authority
Authority

@sumitkar1971 wrote:

I have been a Pentax enthusiast shooter - looking to upgrade to full frame. I have occasionally shot with a friends' 60d. I like the ergonomics of the canon system - wanting to get some feedback from Canon shooters - Why should i choose the 5d3 as opposed to the nikon d750? - Lower resolution, less dynamic range, older technology and more expensive. Any feedback will be much appreciated


You already said why, ergonomics!

 

Though the Canon 6D has closer ergonomics to the 60D than the 5D Mk III.

 

Being comfortable using your camera will make more of a difference in your photos than:

 

resolution - you only need about 10 megapixels after cropping for almost any size print when you consider normal vision and  viewing distance

 

dynamic range - Ansel Adams zone system is based on 9 EV of dynamic range, the Canon 6D has at least 12 EV of dynamic range..

 

technology and cost - The D750 is a newer camera, but, the 6D that you should be looking at costs less.

 

ebiggs1
Legend
Legend

The biggest and formost reason to go Canon is its lenses.  Nobody makes the lens line-up Canon does.  Some make similar but not better.

In DSLR bodies as of today, Nikon may have a small edge.  One reason, good or bad, Nikon found out, they don't know how to make camera sensors.  Thus the best Nikons have Sony sensors.  If you lean this way, you may find a cheaper Sony that is equal to the Nikon you want.  I shoot both and freely admit it.  And as an all around, considered, conclusion, Canon is the best choice.

 

One more thing, all cameras are full frame.  The picture you see in the view finder is the photo you will get.  The term FF is left over from film days by guys that just can't seem to let go of 35mm format.  It is meaningless.  Choice the camera and format that best suits your requirements.

If you can afford the 5D Mk III, buy it.  You will never regret it.

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!


@ebiggs1 wrote:

The biggest and formost reason to go Canon is its lenses.  Nobody makes the lens line-up Canon does.  


I was just thinking the same thing.

 

Tony Northrup did a youtube video that touches on this topic.  He prefers some of the Nikon bodies ... but when he evaluates which lenses he needs and uses every day to do his work... nobody else has the glass.

 

He compares a number of lenses, but he (like me) prefers to use the 70-200mm f/2.8 when shooting portraits.  The long focal lengths produce a gorgeous result.  But when you shoot a long focal length for a portrait that means you are using something near the max end of the zoom range... but focusing near the short-end of the focus distance range.  This creates an issue called "breating".

 

All lenses "breath".  When you move the lens elements inside the lens to focus, you also effect the true focal length of the lens.   It means that if you zoom to the 200mm focal length and focus the camera to "infinity" your focal length probably really is 200mm (or very close to it.)    But when you zoom to 200mm and then focus to minimum focus distance (or at least a focus distance comfortable for portrait framing at 200mm) the "true" focal length of the lens drops.

 

How much does focal length drop?

 

With a Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM II... the lens becomes at a 70-195mm lens.  A loss of about 5mm from the long end.

 

With the Nikon AF-S 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II... the performance is a bit different... a mere 60-130mm of focal length range.

 

That's a huge difference.  The lens isn't anywhere even remotely close to a 200mm lens unless you focus at or near infinity.  That means you lose the compression, the depth of field and background blur change, and the lens is no longer nearly as desirable.  

 

He goes on to explain that even if you look at other brands (Sigma, Tamron, etc.) ... they don't make anything that can compare to Canon lens either.  He considers maybe he could just use a prime... Canon makes a 200mm f/2.8 prime.  Nikon... no such lens.  

 

He goes on to make comparisons about other lenses too.  But the ultimate conclusion is that Canon has the better lens lineup.  It doesn't matter if you like Nikon's cameras better.

 

What I find interesting (and trying to be objective because at the end of the day I think that the most influentual factor in how good your images are... is your skill and not the body) is that THE thing that everyone likes about Nikon cameras... is their sensor.  And ironically... they don't make that sensor -- Sony does.    They do make everything else (so far as I know) but of their "everything else" -- it's not quite as good as what Canon makes (e.g. their shutter performance, their focus system performance, their flash/lighting system, and ... most importantly... their lens lineup.)

 

I hear the "dynamic range" thing over and over, but when I look at the examples people have to give, they REALLY have to go to extremes to make the point.  I don't see it in my shots.  I also see data that shows that as you go to high ISO the sensors trade places (Canon's top bodies have better DR at high ISO -- they only lose at base ISO). 

 

I do like my Canon gear, but I fully recognize there is a lot of great gear out there and compared to the gear available when I was younger, even the gear you might reject today is better than what we had available not so very many years ago (photography has come a LONG way.)  I think that many new camera buyers agonize more than they need to about their purchase decision.  Frankly it's hard to buy a "bad" camera in 2015.

 

Most of what influences your images is (and I've ranked these in order)

 

1)  YOUR skill.  It doesn't matter if I buy a Steinway concert grand piano that's better than anything else on the market... if I don't know how to play the piano then it's going to painful to listen to me play it.  YOU are the most important factor.  If your gear is rubbish then it might be holding you back.  But most modern gear is not rubbish and it's probably not the gear holding you back.

 

2)  Lighting.  I think this gets far less attention than it deserves.  A bit of time setting up good lighting will net far more impressive results than a new camera body.

 

3)  Lenses.  I think this topic confuses people.  They go on about "how sharp is it", but there are so many factors that have to be considered.  "Breathing" being the one that Tony Northrup described (how many people shopping for a lens even know to check out the impact that "breathing" has on the lens performance.)  

 

4)  Camera body.  And here it is... in last place.  If skills are solid, lighting is there, and you've got a nice stable of quality glass THEN a new body might provide some improvement.  But nearly every thread I see on camera shopping goes straight to the discussion about the body and ignores everything else.

 

Tim Campbell
5D III, 5D IV, 60Da

As I have said many times, great photos are 1/2 camera/lens, 1/2 you, and 1/2 post editing

 

On the topic of lenses, I doubt seriously the EF 70-200mm f2.8 is 195mm, ever!  No lens that I have ever seen is what is stamped on the lens barrel.  It is common practice to come 'close' with the markings.  Sometimes it is just a rounding up.

Sometimes it is optimistic.  Sometimes it is a lie.

 

 All lenses "breathe" when focused.  They have to.

 

I shoot both Canon and brand-N.  I can say the bodies are very good.  The lenses are very good, too.  Canon is just better with a much larger line up.

Nikon buys more parts for their cameras than just the sensor.  At least they confessed they didn't do it very well.  They bought what could be the best sensor made.  The Sony A7.  The flagship Nikon D4 Sensor has the NC81366W fabricated for Nikon by foundry partner Renesas.  An NEC company.

 

As far as I know and last checked, Canon makes every single part of their cameras and lenses.  This is of course limited to the higher end, or pro level, gears.

 

If there was no Canon, I could be happy with a Nikon.  But there is!  Smiley Very Happy

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

amfoto1
Authority

Either camera is very capable.

 

Look beyond the camera at the system... lenses and accessories. Go handle the cameras and see which feels best to you and most intuitive to use.

 

The original 13MP Canon 5D was announced in August 2005, as the first "affordable/prosumer" FF DSLR, list price $3300. 

 

The 12MP Nikon D700 was announced in July 2008 (had been rumored a lot in advance), list price $3000.

 

The 21MP Canon 5D Mark II as announds in September 2008, list price $3000.

 

The 22MP Canon 5D Mark III came out in March 2012, list price $3500.

 

The 24MP Nikon D750 came out in October 2014, list price $2300.

 

And that's not considering the 1Ds, 1DsII, 1DsIII, 1DX, 6D, D600, D610, D800 or D810 FF models from Canon and Nikon.

 

It's called "leap frog"... So, who is leading whom? What's likely next?

 

I think a bigger question might be why do you think you need full frame? Not only is the camea more expensive, but the lens selection will be more limited and will tend to be larger, heavier and more expensive. It sort of depends upon what you want to shoot, though. If a lot of your work calls for wide angle and/or low light... full frame might be the logical choice. However, if a lot of your work is with long telephotos, a crop sensor camera may be a better choice. It  also depends upon what you do with your images... If all you ever do is online sharing and rather modest sized prints (up to, say, 13x19" or maybe even 16x24"), there's little to be gained with a full frame camera. The only person who will ever see the difference is you, when viewing your images ridiculously large on your computer monitor (100% on most monitors today is equal to a five foot wide print viewed from 18" away".

 

***********


Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
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