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dsorell · ‎08-06-2020

I have some questions about AF on the R5 (which I’m loving!). I am coming from a 5DIII, and this is my first mirrorless, so please excuse my ignorance; I just want to get clarification on all the AF modes and settings so I can master them all.

ll the questions are about still/photography mode only.

With Face+Tracking+Eye-Detect enabled, and being in Servo mode, and with the setting “Initial Servo AF pt for Face+Tracking” in the AF Tab (magenta) Page 5 set to “AUTO” — which I see most people in — the white box automatically goes to the eyes, with the two arrows on both sides so that we can use the joystick to switch eyes with the joystick. Once we press to focus (I use back-button focusing [BB-focus]) the white box turns BLUE when in focus and it will follow the eye/head and sometimes body from afar brilliantly. So, this I get, and it’s wonderful. Now, if I press the joystick IN when I don’t have BB-focus pressed (or just flick the joystick left and right to switch eyes), the box turns into an almost a double-edged box, which I’m assuming means “tracking,” but I don’t understand why; what’s the difference? And then if I press the joystick IN again, the double-box goes back to a single box; what does that mean? And if I try to move the boxes with my joystick … nothing happens. Thus in this mode I see I cannot move the focus-box at all; it automatically goes to the face/eyes, and I seem to only have control of switching eyes or different faces when multiple people are present. Am I correct?

With Face+Tracking+Eye-Detect enabled, and being in Servo mode, and with the setting “Initial Servo AF pt for Face+Tracking” in the AF Tab (magenta) Page 5 set to “INITIAL SET PT SET FOR…” or “AF PT SET FOR…” Different things happen and I then get confused. Now, in the INITIAL setting, when no BB-focus is pressed, there are no longer any boxes with arrows continuously on the eyes; instead, there is a big White Box on the screen. I can move it around to pick my focus, which is cool. I have been practicing with the box right in the center and leaving it there; I then just move the camera to get whomever or whatever I want to be tracked into that center square, then I press BB-focus. From then on it follows, but if it’s not an eye or face it eventually gets confused and seems to snap to an eye if not initially on an eye. Thus, not sure what the point of this setting is since the camera will be searching for faces and eyes no matter what. I guess it can be useful if there are multiple people in the shot and I’d like to choose which to start with? But then in this setting I lose the eye-switching functionality. Am I correct in all this? Any suggestions?

What if I want to track an inanimate object? If I have a scene where I’d like to track, let’s say, a model train, and I’d like it to track the first car as it goes around the track while I take pictures, always keeping that first car in focus. What settings do I use? I don’t think I would be in Face+Tracking+Eye-Detect mode, right? If not, what mode and setup? And how do I choose that first car to track and stick on it?

I believe there’s a feature where one can touch on the screen to lock on a subject. Is that true? If so, where and how? I’ve read the manual but I’m still confused. And if this feature exists, can it be used within the EVF as opposed to the back screen? If so, how? (And I’m not referring to Touch Shutter.) I mean, with my eye viewing through the EVF, can I choose a point to track and have it stick?

I know these are a lot of questions, and maybe some are somewhat ignorant or unclear. So…

Thanks in advance. 🙂

PLee · ‎08-07-2020

Now, if I press the joystick IN when I don’t have BB-focus pressed (or just flick the joystick left and right to switch eyes), the box turns into an almost a double-edged box, which I’m assuming means “tracking,” but I don’t understand why; what’s the difference?

Double-box means you've intentionally selected the "subject" in the center of the frame to track for AF by pressing joystick. It does not activate any type of AF, ONE SHOT or SERVO.

And then if I press the joystick IN again, the double-box goes back to a single box; what does that mean?

Anytime you press again with double-box active, you turn off the double-box and reset the system unless you also have an identifyable eye, when eye-detect AF is on, or face, when face detect AF is on. In that case, the system goes back to tracking an eye or face automatically with the single-box instead. You can think of single box as automatic subject selection and double box as intentional (manual) subject selection.

Whenever you see the left white arrow with a right white arrow in eye-detect AF, then you can use the joystick to swap the eyes on one face if you choose. This can be between any recognizable eyes in frame within the AF area. If you manually swap eyes or face with joystick in this way, then the single-box turns into a double-box to signify that a manual subject selection has been made.

The white box, single or double, only signifies the subject the camera is interested in tracking. No autofocusing is actually taking place until you initiate with shutter button or back button AF.

With Face+Tracking+Eye-Detect enabled, and being in Servo mode, and with the setting “Initial Servo AF pt for Face+Tracking” in the AF Tab (magenta) Page 5 set to “INITIAL SET PT SET FOR…” or “AF PT SET FOR…” Different things happen and I then get confused. Now, in the INITIAL setting, when no BB-focus is pressed, there are no longer any boxes with arrows continuously on the eyes; instead, there is a big White Box on the screen. I can move it around to pick my focus, which is cool. I have been practicing with the box right in the center and leaving it there; I then just move the camera to get whomever or whatever I want to be tracked into that center square, then I press BB-focus. From then on it follows, but if it’s not an eye or face it eventually gets confused and seems to snap to an eye if not initially on an eye. Thus, not sure what the point of this setting is since the camera will be searching for faces and eyes no matter what. I guess it can be useful if there are multiple people in the shot and I’d like to choose which to start with? But then in this setting I lose the eye-switching functionality. Am I correct in all this? Any suggestions?

You are correct. In this mode the camera will search for an eye (eye-detect AF enabled) within the white starting box only. It will never allow you to swap eyes with the joystick as it is not searching for all eyes within the frame automatically. The camera is only looking for eyes within the area of the small white box itself. This is most commonly used for designating non-people, non-animal subjects for SERVO AF as the camera doesn't search for those subjects on its own.

What if I want to track an inanimate object? If I have a scene where I’d like to track, let’s say, a model train, and I’d like it to track the first car as it goes around the track while I take pictures, always keeping that first car in focus. What settings do I use? I don’t think I would be in Face+Tracking+Eye-Detect mode, right? If not, what mode and setup? And how do I choose that first car to track and stick on it?

For your car example, if you can get a clear view of the car approaching your area of interest, Face+Tracking+Eye-Detect mode is probably still the best choice. Just push the system out of the AUTO for “Initial Servo AF pt for Face+Tracking”. This is best if you care more about a particular car over others or not following the race more generally and focusing on a particular car.

The only exception that would come to mind would be if your viewpoint obstructs the car's approach, then I would suggest all the same settings, but just keep the starting white square to the side the cars approach to pick them up as soon as they enter the frame. Auto racing is fairly predictable for pathing and this is helpful for simplifying your AF setup.

If you are following the race more generally and don't care so much about particular cars, you might try the horizontal zone mode. The system will now always default to tracking and focusing on the closest subject with detail inside the large white bracket. The system will now grab the closest car within the bracketed area. This is more useful if you have foreground obstructions trackside that might otherwise grab focus on trackside objects or marshalls when using the 100% x 100% frame available for Face+Tracking.

I believe there’s a feature where one can touch on the screen to lock on a subject. Is that true? If so, where and how? I’ve read the manual but I’m still confused. And if this feature exists, can it be used within the EVF as opposed to the back screen? If so, how? (And I’m not referring to Touch Shutter.) I mean, with my eye viewing through the EVF, can I choose a point to track and have it stick?

There's a tap to track feature available by touching the LCD when it's actively displaying the scene. It will give you the double-box on your manually selected subject. In order to activate a similar function while using the EVF, you need to turn on "Touch and drag AF settings" in AF tab 1 (magenta 1). When touch and drag is active and you are looking through the EVF, if you touch and hold on the active portion of the LCD, you will see a dotted orange circle. You can use your finger to drag this circle anywhere in the frame and release to manually select the subject (white double-box). You can also tap and release to select, but it is more difficult to be precise with placement of your orange circle this way.

Hope this helps and it is true that the manual is not very clear on this.

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Waddizzle · ‎08-07-2020

@dsorell wrote:
Yeah, watched it before. But his hit rate was lower than expexted. Watching Jared Polin (FroKnowsPhoto) is continually getting amazing hit rates. That's why I think it's settings and/or tehnique, hence why I'm asking so many questions, so I can master it.

I think I saw a video from Micheal the Maven in my YouTube news feed. It is a 3 hour tutorial on the R5 and R6 bodies. He likes to make LONG tutorials.

Jared Polin does not know as much as he pretends. He does not seem able to understand Canon gear, at all. For example, he was doing areview of a Rebel a year ago or so. He was using Spot Metering. But, he was also selecting different AF points.

He was demonstrating how you do not need to focus and recompose. Just move the AF point to your subject, instead. His exposures were all over the place both under and over. He blamed the camera. He should have blamed himself.

All Canon DSLRs spot meter with the center AF point. Only 1D Series bodies can spot meter with any AF point. He did not know that he was focusing here, but metering from over there.

Remember, Jared is a Nikon guy to the core. Nikon DSLRs are the same way. Only the flagship camera bodies can spot meter with any AF point. He is not as smart as he thinks he is. Nope.

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"The right mouse button is your friend."

John_SD · ‎08-07-2020

@Waddizzle wrote:
I think I saw a video from Micheal the Maven in my YouTube news feed. It is a 3 hour tutorial on the R5 and R6 bodies. He likes to make LONG tutorials.

Jared Polin does not know as much as he pretends.

They both get on my nerves to the Nth degree and I don't waste my time listening to them blather on. Dustin Abbott is much more to my taste and is probably my favorite reviewer. I also tune in to Chris Nichols.

Waddizzle · ‎08-07-2020

@John_SD wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:
I think I saw a video from Micheal the Maven in my YouTube news feed. It is a 3 hour tutorial on the R5 and R6 bodies. He likes to make LONG tutorials.

Jared Polin does not know as much as he pretends.
They both get on my nerves to the Nth degree and I don't waste my time listening to them blather on. Dustin Abbott is much more to my taste and is probably my favorite reviewer. I also tune in to Chris Nichols.

Unlike Jared, Michael seems to know what he is talking about, including all of the subtle nuances in different brands. He is just long winded. But, I give him credit for being totally thorough, unlike Jared.

BTW, I dont watch their camera tutorials. I only watched a tutorial to see if the person knows their stuff. Jared doesn't.

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"The right mouse button is your friend."

dsorell · ‎08-07-2020

I disagree. I think Jared knows his stuff, and the proof is in his work. At least, obviosuly, that's my opinion.

But ... no matter ... in his R5/6 videos, in real time and the actual results in photos, he's getting great ratio of hits ... and that was my point. Thus I think it's technique and settings too, not just turn on Eye AF and let it do what it does.

I like Maven too and have been talking to him about it. He seems to get a much higher rate of hits as well, like Jared, hence why I'm in communication with him.

Anyhow, thanks everyone. I think I have a quite a great handle now on the R5's AF system. And loving it!

Waddizzle · ‎08-07-2020

@dsorell wrote:
I disagree. I think Jared knows his stuff, and the proof is in his work. At least, obviosuly, that's my opinion.

But ... no matter ... in his R5/6 videos, in real time and the actual results in photos, he's getting great ratio of hits ... and that was my point. Thus I think it's technique and settings too, not just turn on Eye AF and let it do what it does.

I like Maven too and have been talking to him about it. He seems to get a much higher rate of hits as well, like Jared, hence why I'm in communication with him.

Anyhow, thanks everyone. I think I have a quite a great handle now on the R5's AF system. And loving it!

Jared knows what he knows. When he doesn't, it shows. Jared is a pretty good wedding photographer and photo journalist using his familiar gear.

I still cannot believe that he did not know that entry level cameras only spot meter at the center AF point. He really laid down and blasted the camera for its' poor exposure control.. I doubt if he hss yet to realize that it was his mistakes were the problem, not the camera. His unfamiliarity with third party gear is plain to see, most especially with Canon gear.

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"The right mouse button is your friend."

John_SD · ‎12-07-2020

@Waddizzle wrote:
Unlike Jared, Michael seems to know what he is talking about, including all of the subtle nuances in different brands. He is just long winded. But, I give him credit for being totally thorough, unlike Jared.

I have recently come to agree with your assessment of Michael the Maven. While he is extremely verbose, he is also quite knowledgable and thorough in his videos. I recently sat thru his nearly 2-hour "introductory" video on the EOS RP. I learned a lot and it helped me get up to speed. Polin, while knowledgable, blathers aimlessly too much for my taste and I have grown weary of his clown act. Different strokes for differnet folks.

Waddizzle · ‎12-07-2020

@John_SD wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:
Unlike Jared, Michael seems to know what he is talking about, including all of the subtle nuances in different brands. He is just long winded. But, I give him credit for being totally thorough, unlike Jared.
I have recently come to agree with your assessment of Michael the Maven. While he is extremely verbose, he is also quite knowledgable and thorough in his videos. I recently sat thru his nearly 2-hour "introductory" video on the EOS RP. I learned a lot and it helped me get up to speed. Polin, while knowledgable, blathers aimlessly too much for my taste and I have grown weary of his clown act. Different strokes for differnet folks.

Another guy that makes really good videos is Grant Atkinson. He seems to have stopped making videos. He is, or was, a big Canon wildlife shooter. He really understands every setting in the menu systems, especially the advanced AF settings.

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"The right mouse button is your friend."

PReif · ‎12-07-2020

what setting for "Initial Servo AF pt for tracking " would be most appropriate for "tracking eye AF " for birds in flight ?

Waddizzle · ‎12-07-2020

@PReif wrote:
what setting for "Initial Servo AF pt for tracking " would be most appropriate for "tracking eye AF " for birds in flight ?

The layman's response would be to select the center AF point and the "Initial Servo AF pt for tracking".

At the top of the screenshot you can see the default setting is "AUTO". You want to change that. Next, you want to go into your AF point selection menu and select the AF point, based upon which AF zone you are set to.

If you do not have a full copy of the User Manual, you can download it from Canon Support on the same page where you downloaded the software apps for the camera.

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"The right mouse button is your friend."

iPanSuk · ‎01-13-2021

Very good answer for me too,

Press "set" button also assign focus point to the object, toggle to cancel

Thanks so much

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R5 AF Settings & Understanding?