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Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,735
Registered: ‎02-28-2013

Re: Not great images with new 6D. Please take a look and give me your thoughts


@adamsnapper wrote:
I use the camera professionally...
I nearly always use single shot AF with the centre spot, then hold and reframe then shoot. 

 

Focus and recompose has its uses, but a professional shooter should know better.  If you're shooting wide apertures using this technique then you're not going to get consistent focus.

 

 


@adamsnapper wrote:
I take two shots of each couple, but on checking back through all the images there will be only five or so from the whole session which are razor sharp, most are muzzy and a select  few are almost unusable the focus is that bad.

 


Sorry, but something is wrong with your technique or your camera.  True, the 6D AF is lousy compared to many modern AF systems when it comes to moving subjects.  But there is no reason why you can't get consistent sharp photos of posing subjects with the camera.

New Contributor
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎04-08-2014

Re: Not great images with new 6D. Please take a look and give me your thoughts

Thanks but there's nothing wrong with my 30 years of technique, When shooting with the 28-70 I have two stop in. Focus and recompose was done as there is a portrait of the Queen between both parties and a centre point focus would hit that. I've tried focus points left and right but the miss rate was enough to switch me back to manual focus. I never had the issue with the 1d IIn (or indeed any of the various Canon 1's I've used over the years). The focus on the 6d is skittish...nothing more needs to be said  and I cannot trust the camera.

Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,735
Registered: ‎02-28-2013

Re: Not great images with new 6D. Please take a look and give me your thoughts

[ Edited ]

@adamsnapper wrote:

The focus on the 6d is skittish...nothing more needs to be said  and I cannot trust the camera.


No, more does need to be said before you so dismissively judge the 6D based on focus and recompose technique. The belief that Canon released a mid-range SLR that can't reliably focus on a static subject is asinine.   The 6D is proving to be a reliable tool for many photographers, I’m sorry you’re not finding the same.  But your results are not normal, despite the much discussed 6D AF system.   It’s either technique or faulty equipment.  Since you’ve had 30 years to perfect your technique, it obviously must be the equipment.

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Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 3,807
Registered: ‎06-11-2013

Re: Not great images with new 6D. Please take a look and give me your thoughts

The only way to properly evaluate focus accrately and objectively is to use a valid test target and testing conditions.

 

When I do this, I have a commercial test target (you can an improvise as long as you have a high-contrast target with enough fine detail ... a sheet of newspaper on the wall could be a valid test target).  Commercial targets typically include an inclineded scale which runs a distance nearer and farther than the main target so that if the camera misses focus, you can inspect the inclined scale and determine how far the focus point was either forward or behind the intended target.   This is ideal BECAUSE many cameras allow for focus adjustment ... but you need to know which way to adjust and how much adjustment is required.

 

Regardless of the target, it needs to be stationary and the camera needs to be stationary as well.  This means the camera really needs to be on a tripod.  In "One Shot" AF mode the camera focuses until it locks, then stops focusing.  If your body leaned forward or backward just a small amount  after locking focus this can mean the difference between sharp focus on the eyes themselves... vs. the eyebrows or nose, etc.   This is especially important when using low focal ratios with very narrow depth of field.  But even focus inside depth of field isn't necessary "tack sharp" -- it's only "accepatble focus" because at most print sizes nobody will notice.

 

It is entirely possible the camera needs calibration and each lens can throw focus.  The fact that a lens worked extremely well with one body does NOT mean it will work as well with a different body AND... this is NOT the fault of the body or the lens.  In other words... I can grab a different lens of the same make and model (just a different copy) and get different results.

 

You might want to read Roger Cicala's blog titled "'This lens is soft' and other myths"

 

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2008/12/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths

 

He explains why this happens (btw, he owns a lens rental company... so he's got hundreds of bodies and lenses to validate this) and what you can do about it.

 

It's possible your camera needs nothing more then an AF Microadjustment (this is something you can do in your menus - it doesn't even need to go in for service).  But before you fiddle with it, I _strongly_ suggest you carefully use valid test targets and testing conditions as you can certainly make things worse than before you started.

 

When I test a lens, I set up my focus target and camera, then manually run the focus all the way IN, then let the camera focus and shoot.  I repeat this about 10 times.  After each shot, I deliberately de-focus by running the focus all the way IN.

 

After enough of those shots are completed, I note the frame number, then run the focus all the way OUT and let the camera refocus and shoot.... repeating that about 10 times.

 

Don't just take one shot.  You want enough to establish a trend to determine if the camera is CONSISTENT.  The reasons I do a number of shots with focus run to the limit in each direction is I want to know if there's any "slop" or backlash in the focus mechanism.  In other words... if the camera is bringing focus forward, it might usually miss focus.  If the camera is running focus outward then it might usually nail focus.  The direction in which the camera has to change focus can effect the result (hopefully it doesn't... but if there's a backlash or slop problem then it would.)

 

If the camera consistently misses focus and always off by roughly the same amount in the same direction (e.g. suppose it consistently front focuses by about 1 cenitmeter, etc.) then that's easily corrected in the AF microadjustment menu.  

 

Tim Campbell
5D III, 5D IV, 60Da
New Contributor
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎05-12-2015

Re: Not great images with new 6D. Please take a look and give me your thoughts

I'm late to this thread, since I just bought a 6d two weeks ago. Shot a wedding a couple of days later. Most of my images were shot with the 24-105. MOST were OK, some a little soft, a few were gross. Like the ones of the groom with his family. There was only one I could salvage after using some "focus" sharpening plugins. 

 

So I try to do the Micro adjust. The 105 end adjusted fine. The mid range and lower had a very wide AF acceptance window. So I did some shooting outside and found that the AF point would flash red, but when I looked at the images in LR they were quite soft. 

 

So I put on my 70-200 f2.8 II IS, and 100 f2.8 11 IS Macro and they were tack sharp. I was having issues with the focus when mounted on my 5d classic and hoped it was the camera, so I bought the 6d while there was a $300 rebate.

 

I'm not sure if sending the 24-105 to Canon CPS will fix the AF. It does not always fail. I think since I am semi-retired if I need a WA lens, I can rent  24-70 2.8L Mk II for $35/day.

 

So I would suspect the 24-105 lens. You almost have to de-focus, re-focus, shoot, and repeat if the image is really import. I'm going to practive focusing manually to see if my acceptance rate improves.

Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,967
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Not great images with new 6D. Please take a look and give me your thoughts

[ Edited ]

@butchdon wrote:

I'm late to this thread, since I just bought a 6d two weeks ago. Shot a wedding a couple of days later. Most of my images were shot with the 24-105. MOST were OK, some a little soft, a few were gross. Like the ones of the groom with his family. There was only one I could salvage after using some "focus" sharpening plugins. 

 

So I try to do the Micro adjust. The 105 end adjusted fine. The mid range and lower had a very wide AF acceptance window. So I did some shooting outside and found that the AF point would flash red, but when I looked at the images in LR they were quite soft. 

 

So I put on my 70-200 f2.8 II IS, and 100 f2.8 11 IS Macro and they were tack sharp. I was having issues with the focus when mounted on my 5d classic and hoped it was the camera, so I bought the 6d while there was a $300 rebate.

 

I'm not sure if sending the 24-105 to Canon CPS will fix the AF. It does not always fail. I think since I am semi-retired if I need a WA lens, I can rent  24-70 2.8L Mk II for $35/day.

 

So I would suspect the 24-105 lens. You almost have to de-focus, re-focus, shoot, and repeat if the image is really import. I'm going to practive focusing manually to see if my acceptance rate improves.


Try using DotTune: Autofocus fine tuning in under 5 minutes to MFA your lens. That way you get the MFA set to the middle of the depth of field.

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 4,952
Registered: ‎06-25-2014

Re: Not great images with new 6D. Please take a look and give me your thoughts


@butchdon wrote:

I'm late to this thread, since I just bought a 6d two weeks ago. Shot a wedding a couple of days later. Most of my images were shot with the 24-105. MOST were OK, some a little soft, a few were gross. Like the ones of the groom with his family. There was only one I could salvage after using some "focus" sharpening plugins. 

 

So I try to do the Micro adjust. The 105 end adjusted fine. The mid range and lower had a very wide AF acceptance window. So I did some shooting outside and found that the AF point would flash red, but when I looked at the images in LR they were quite soft. 

 

So I put on my 70-200 f2.8 II IS, and 100 f2.8 11 IS Macro and they were tack sharp. I was having issues with the focus when mounted on my 5d classic and hoped it was the camera, so I bought the 6d while there was a $300 rebate.

 

I'm not sure if sending the 24-105 to Canon CPS will fix the AF. It does not always fail. I think since I am semi-retired if I need a WA lens, I can rent  24-70 2.8L Mk II for $35/day.

 

So I would suspect the 24-105 lens. You almost have to de-focus, re-focus, shoot, and repeat if the image is really import. I'm going to practive focusing manually to see if my acceptance rate improves.


If you are presenting yourself as a professional wedding photographer, you are underequipped. I've never used (or even seen) a 6D, but from its published specs it appears to have an AF system that is at best mediocre by today's standards. Most professionals wouldn't use it for an important event like a wedding.

 

If, OTOH, you are just a serious ameteur doing a fovor for a friend, the secret is to take more shots, For simple stastical reasons you should get more keepers. All, or virtually all, professional event photographers take way more shots than they're going to need. It's cheap insurance, since it costs you nothing but the work of reviewing and editing a larger number of images.

 

The 24-105 is a fine lens. Many of us in this forum own it, and you rarely see any of us complain. It's possible that you have a lemon, but other explanations are more likely.

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA
New Contributor
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎05-12-2015

Re: Not great images with new 6D. Please take a look and give me your thoughts

BobtheFat, in one sequence I took 4 shots and all were soft. Some more than others. I also have a 5d, and have had some soft images with that as well. I have rented other L lenses and placed them on the 5d and the 20d and did not have this issue at the few weddings we shot. At this point I think I have a bad copy that is past it's warranty period and w ill have Canon look at it.

 

BTW, if the 24-105 is such a fine lens why is the web full of complaints, even with people using way better bodies than mine? As I mentioned I have NOT had this problem with my 70-200 2.8L IS II, the 100 2.8L IS II, or other L lenses I've rented.

 

 

Reputable Contributor
Posts: 744
Registered: ‎11-14-2012

Re: Not great images with new 6D. Please take a look and give me your thoughts

[ Edited ]

@TTMartin wrote:

Try using DotTune: Autofocus fine tuning in under 5 minutes to MFA your lens. That way you get the MFA set to the middle of the depth of field.

If you are comfortable about the idea of installing Magic lantern, you can use DotTune like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58enf18Q0l4

 

It is just microadjustment, but maybe better than nothing. Here in Sweden focus adjusting will cost me +120€. In Japan it will cost 10€. I don't know where you live, but if you someday travel to a country that has the same kind of price level for Canon service, bring your lens.

 

BTW, there is an issue with the 24-105 if you have an early version, UT0001-UT1000. Just good to know.

 

---------------------------------------------------------
My Swedish blog

M5, 7D, 6D, D30, 300D, 30D, 1000D IR, EOS DCS 3c, EOS D2000, 16-35/4L IS, 100/2,8 Macro, 70-200/2,8L IS II, 24-105/4L, 85/1,8, 50/1,4, 24/1,4L II, 300/2,8L IS, Helios 58/2

Darktable, RawTherapee, Photomatix, Luminance HDR, GIMP 2.10.6.
New Contributor
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎05-12-2015

Re: Not great images with new 6D. Please take a look and give me your thoughts

[ Edited ]

Peter, the ML looks pretty interesting. Unforetunately, you need to be running 1.1.3 version firmware which has disapeared from the web for downloading.

 

I did try the Dot Tune method earlier and it worked with the lens in tele at 105 (10 point focus acceptance window), but at 65mm and below it was like 28 points.

 

My lens version is UV1112, so I'm safe there.

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