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VIP
Posts: 8,918
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Is Mark 4 focus system inferior FOR STREET PHOTOGRAPHY to the Mark 3?


@Streker26 wrote:

 


I am a little confused. You've made a good argument to use Servo but in order to do so with focus priority one must choose a certain case setting? I don't have my camera in front of me but I thought that was another menu. What case setting do you use when in Servo to not fire the shutter in AIServo unless the camera focus is acheived?


The shutter control setting is called Image Priority, and it is found in the AF2 menu, not the AF1 Case Menu.

 

955F9A28-73A0-4C56-A545-E71314D915C5.png

 

If you are in AI Servo mode, then Case settings apply.  The individual tracking parameters made available in the case settings allow you to adjust the tracking behavior of the camera.  The different Cases are simply a preset.  They are what the engineers have come up with for different shooting scenarios.  You can change them however you wish.

Be aware that Case settings adjust tracking behavior, and have little to nothing to do with actual focusing and subject acquisition.  Case settings apply when you are tracking a subject in the viewfinder, and are using Continuous drive mode.

 

It is not clear to me how the Case settings would apply if you are in Single Shot drive mode.  It would seem that they would not apply.  It is not clear how the 1st Image Priority setting would apply in Single Shot drive mode, if at all.  There seems to be an underlying assumption that if you are using AI Servo, then you also using Continuous Drive mode.

If you are using AI Servo with Single Shot drive mode, it is not clear what impact, if any, the 1st Image Priority setting would have.  Based on my experience, it does seem to have an impact on how the camera behaves in this scenario.  The camera will acquire a subject, and then continuously track it until you fully press the shutter.  If you set 1st Image Priority to Focus, then the camera does seem to acquire a focus lock prior to activating the shutter.

Keep in mind, not every lens is responsive enough, or focuses fast enough, to be useful in AI Servo mode when used with a camera with a high frame rate.  In this case, you really need to set Image Priority to Focus, so that the camera will wait for the lens to acquire a focus lock.

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
VIP
Posts: 8,918
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Is Mark 4 focus system inferior FOR STREET PHOTOGRAPHY to the Mark 3?


 wrote:

Hi, I am curious to define more clearly what is meant by "moving subjects" Are you saying that Servo is mostly appropriate for "multiple shots" of a single moving subject? What about when the subject is still (or perhaps walking slowly) but YOU are moving quickly past the subject and do a fast grab shot? I ask because this is generally how I work. I rarely if ever take more then one frame of a subject moving or still but "I" am moving quickly myself when I take the picture so that the subject does not see me or take offense. So in this circumstance would you recommend still using Servo or One Shot? Thanks....


Good question.  I define a “moving subject” as when the distance between the camera and the subject is changing.

If wanted to take a picture of a woman combing her hair as she sits in a chair, would she be a “moving” subject?  I do not think so, because her distance to the camera is not really changing.  A fast shutter should be able to freeze her motion.

Should you use One Shot or AI Servo to photograph the woman combing her hair?  I would think your AF point selection would determine which focusing mode to use, and where you want to focus.  Typically, I have all AF points enabled in AI Servo mode, and just the center AF point enabled for One Shot mode.

I would want to use a single AF point to focus on the face, which for me typically means One Shot mode.  I would not want to have all AF points active.  One could use only one active AF point in AI Servo mode for the shot, too, and take a short burst of shots.

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
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Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,967
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Is Mark 4 focus system inferior FOR STREET PHOTOGRAPHY to the Mark 3?


@Waddizzle wrote:

@Streker26 wrote:

 


I am a little confused. You've made a good argument to use Servo but in order to do so with focus priority one must choose a certain case setting? I don't have my camera in front of me but I thought that was another menu. What case setting do you use when in Servo to not fire the shutter in AIServo unless the camera focus is acheived?


The shutter control setting is called Image Priority, and it is found in the AF2 menu, not the AF1 Case Menu.

 

955F9A28-73A0-4C56-A545-E71314D915C5.png

 

 



If you are using AI Servo with Single Shot drive mode, it is not clear what impact, if any, the 1st Image Priority setting would have.  Based on my experience, it does seem to have an impact on how the camera behaves in this scenario.  The camera will acquire a subject, and then continuously track it until you fully press the shutter.  If you set 1st Image Priority to Focus, then the camera does seem to acquire a focus lock prior to activating the shutter.


It is not clear to me how the Case settings would apply if you are in Single Shot drive mode.  It would seem that they would not apply.  It is not clear how the 1st Image Priority setting would apply in Single Shot drive mode, if at all.  There seems to be an underlying assumption that if you are using AI Servo, then you also using Continuous Drive mode.

The case settings apply to AIServo in single shot drive mode or multishot drive mode, in single shot drive mode they control the subject tracking of the subject while the shutter is half pressed.

If you are using AI Servo with Single Shot drive mode, it is not clear what impact, if any, the 1st Image Priority setting would have. 
When using AIServo and set 1st Image Prority set to Focus the camera behaves like it is in One Shot, it will not take a photo until the subject is in Focus. The difference is that AIServo will maintain focus if your subject moves between it initially obtaining focus and your fully pressing the shutter button.

 

FWIW, I use AIServo, Case 1, and have both first and second image priority set to Focus, I have focus start on the shutter button, I have AF ON reprogrammed to AF OFF, incase I need to focus and recompose. In that case I focus on the subject press and hold the AF ON button which locks focus, and then I recompose.

 

VIP
Posts: 11,954
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: Is Mark 4 focus system inferior FOR STREET PHOTOGRAPHY to the Mark 3?

" I use AIServo, Case 1, and have both first and second image priority set to Focus, I have focus start on the shutter button, I have AF ON reprogrammed to AF OFF, incase I need to focus and recompose."

 

Ditto, me too.  Works great.

EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and several lenses!
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,967
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Is Mark 4 focus system inferior FOR STREET PHOTOGRAPHY to the Mark 3?

[ Edited ]


@Waddizzle wrote:

One Shot mode can be used for anything, even action sports, with a fast enough shutter and the proper depth of field.

 

AI Servo mode is not used for “moving” subjects, per se.  Lenses have a plane of perfect focus.  Depending upon your aperture setting, there is some distance behind and in front of the focus plane where subjects are in “acceptable” focus.  This is called DOF.  

 

AI Servo mode is [used to] track subjects whose distance to the camera is changing.  As the distance to the subject changes, the subject can move away from the focused plane, and out of the DOF.  AI Servo is used to adjust the focusing distance to the subject, as the subject moves away or towards the camera, to keep the subject within an acceptable DOF, if not in perfect focus.


 And a point and shoot can be used for sports because they have a huge depth of field, but, most people using a dSLR are doing so because of the subject isolation given by a shallow depth of field, or because they need a large aperture to allow enough light to be captured. 

16973_449957865692_6302085_n.jpg

The 50mm set at f/1.4 and a subject distance of 10 feet has a 12 inch depth of field, meaning if the subect moves more than 6 inches front or back they are out of the area of acceptable focus. 

 

VIP
Posts: 8,918
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Is Mark 4 focus system inferior FOR STREET PHOTOGRAPHY to the Mark 3?

" I use AIServo, Case 1, and have both first and second image priority set to Focus, I have focus start on the shutter button, I have AF ON reprogrammed to AF OFF, incase I need to focus and recompose."

 

 

I set my camera the same way for AI Servo, with all AF points active, and have it saved as a custom shooting mode.   Using AI Servo with a single AF point is almost like One shot Mode.  

 

I set my camera for One Shot, with just one AF point, BBF, and have it saved as custom shooting mode.  With a fast enough shutter speed, one can shoot anything.  I think that fact was proven years ago, back in the film days, before AF lenses.

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
VIP
Posts: 8,918
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Is Mark 4 focus system inferior FOR STREET PHOTOGRAPHY to the Mark 3?

[ Edited ]

 wrote:

 

My gut suspicion is that the OP could be pressing the shutter too early.  If [you] half press the shutter, to wake up the camera, before you begin looking through the viewfinder and framing a shot, you can easily wind up focusing on the background.

“Hi, I am curious to define more clearly what is meant by "moving subjects" Are you saying that Servo is mostly appropriate for "multiple shots" of a single moving subject? What about when the subject is still (or perhaps walking slowly) but YOU are moving quickly past the subject and do a fast grab shot? I ask because this is generally how I work. I rarely if ever take more then one frame of a subject moving or still but "I" am moving quickly myself when I take the picture so that the subject does not see me or take offense. So in this circumstance would you recommend still using Servo or One Shot? Thanks....”

 

When you “do a fast grab shot” are you using Live View mode, or the viewfinder?

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Occasional Contributor
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎01-11-2018

Re: Is Mark 4 focus system inferior FOR STREET PHOTOGRAPHY to the Mark 3?


@Waddizzle wrote:

 wrote:

 

My gut suspicion is that the OP could be pressing the shutter too early.  If [you] half press the shutter, to wake up the camera, before you begin looking through the viewfinder and framing a shot, you can easily wind up focusing on the background.

“Hi, I am curious to define more clearly what is meant by "moving subjects" Are you saying that Servo is mostly appropriate for "multiple shots" of a single moving subject? What about when the subject is still (or perhaps walking slowly) but YOU are moving quickly past the subject and do a fast grab shot? I ask because this is generally how I work. I rarely if ever take more then one frame of a subject moving or still but "I" am moving quickly myself when I take the picture so that the subject does not see me or take offense. So in this circumstance would you recommend still using Servo or One Shot? Thanks....”

 

When you “do a fast grab shot” are you using Live View mode, or the viewfinder?


Viewfinder ... always ... what I am used to.

Occasional Contributor
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎01-11-2018

Re: Is Mark 4 focus system inferior FOR STREET PHOTOGRAPHY to the Mark 3?


@Waddizzle wrote:

" I use AIServo, Case 1, and have both first and second image priority set to Focus, I have focus start on the shutter button, I have AF ON reprogrammed to AF OFF, incase I need to focus and recompose."

 

 

I set my camera the same way for AI Servo, with all AF points active, and have it saved as a custom shooting mode.   Using AI Servo with a single AF point is almost like One shot Mode.  

 

I set my camera for One Shot, with just one AF point, BBF, and have it saved as custom shooting mode.  With a fast enough shutter speed, one can shoot anything.  I think that fact was proven years ago, back in the film days, before AF lenses.


Well, I am experimenting with One Shot now and it does seem better generally but yesterday I lined up a picture while moving past a couple sitting and took four frames AS I QUICKLY WALKED PAST THEM. They were fairly central and filled about twenty percent of the frame and were in the foreground. The camera again focused on the store behind them. UGH! 

Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,967
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Is Mark 4 focus system inferior FOR STREET PHOTOGRAPHY to the Mark 3?


@Streker26 wrote:

@Waddizzle wrote:

" I use AIServo, Case 1, and have both first and second image priority set to Focus, I have focus start on the shutter button, I have AF ON reprogrammed to AF OFF, incase I need to focus and recompose."

 

 

I set my camera the same way for AI Servo, with all AF points active, and have it saved as a custom shooting mode.   Using AI Servo with a single AF point is almost like One shot Mode.  

 

I set my camera for One Shot, with just one AF point, BBF, and have it saved as custom shooting mode.  With a fast enough shutter speed, one can shoot anything.  I think that fact was proven years ago, back in the film days, before AF lenses.


Well, I am experimenting with One Shot now and it does seem better generally but yesterday I lined up a picture while moving past a couple sitting and took four frames AS I QUICKLY WALKED PAST THEM. They were fairly central and filled about twenty percent of the frame and were in the foreground. The camera again focused on the store behind them. UGH! 


One Shot is NOT the answer to your problem!!!

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