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Frequent Contributor
Posts: 33
Registered: ‎10-03-2013

Re: Does spending more mean getting less?

There is a learning curve with everypiece of new equipment we buy. You can notsetthe same settings on every camera and get the same results. The 6D is a full frame camera you were shooting with a crop. The ISO settings are going to be a little different becaus of the range of the camera. What white balance setting are you using what picture mode are you in. These will all have an effecton the picture are you shooting raw or jpg.

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Reputable Contributor
Posts: 840
Registered: ‎12-24-2013

Re: Does spending more mean getting less?

[ Edited ]

Using a Full Frame camera at the same settings as a Crop camera will give you less depth of field.  More of the image will have out of focus blur. That could account for some of what you are seeing in some photos.

 

I can't really say if that applies in the example you provided as it is quite small, and I can't really tell if it is out of focus, or there is motion blur. 

Mike Sowsun
S110, SL1, 80D, 5D Mk III
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Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,861
Registered: ‎12-02-2012

Re: Does spending more mean getting less?

Mike beat me to it. Aside from ordinary focus issues which need to be nailed down, the FF camera gives over a stop shallower DOF at the same aperture.
Scott

Canon 5d mk 4, Canon 6D, EF 70-200mm L f/2.8 IS mk2; EF 16-35 f/2.8 L mk. III; Sigma 35mm f/1.4 "Art" EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro; EF 85mm f/1.8; EF 1.4x extender mk. 3; EF 24-105 f/4 L; EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS; 3x Phottix Mitros+ speedlites

Why do so many people say "FER-tographer"? Do they take "fertographs"?
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Frequent Contributor
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎04-14-2014

Re: Does spending more mean getting less?

Ok,  I can accept that, but I think in this case it had more to do with camera shake.  Both were set at F16.

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VIP
Posts: 13,169
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: Does spending more mean getting less?

I agree with the above gentlemen.  The two photo examples are not comparable.  Possibly you caught one set-up at it's best and the other at it's worst.  No camera, not even a EOS 1Dx will hit 100% of it's shots.

You buy the best equipment you can and than it is up to you, not the camera, to make the shot.  If easy shooting and no effort is your photographic goal, than a P&S would be a better choice.

 

A music lover told Chet Akins, after a concert, he had a great sounding guitar.  Chet said, "Oh is that a fact?"  He put the guitar in it's rack on the floor and starred at it.  Nothing, no sound!  After a while Chet said, "Maybe I had somnething to do with that 'sound'."

 

So you are the photographer, not the camera.

EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and several lenses!
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Frequent Contributor
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎04-14-2014

Re: Does spending more mean getting less?

I will take your word for it for now but I can tell you that the new camera does not seem all that much different in my hand and I was able to take consitant shots with the T3i at a focal length of 300mm and 1/13 sec. with great clarity.  And the T3i shutter  is much clunkier.   I just don't appreciate spending a lot more money with the expectation that the performance will be better.  I just want a camera that will do what I want it to.  Tools should be a help and not a hinderance.  If camera companies want to appeal to world-class photographers, they would build a camera that would make shooting easier, not harder.  

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Reputable Contributor
Posts: 840
Registered: ‎12-24-2013

Re: Does spending more mean getting less?

 "I was able to take consitant shots with the T3i at a focal length of 300mm and 1/13 sec. with great clarity"  

 

To take a steady shot at 300mm amd 1/13 sec you need to have very steady hands AND extremely good Image Stabilization. The 6D should be even better for you provided the lens Image Stabilization is as good as the previous lens you were shooting with. 

 

"If camera companies want to appeal to world-class photographers, they would build a camera that would make shooting easier, not harder"  

 

What is it about the 6D that you think makes it harder to shoot than the T3i?  I have never used one but from what I have read, it is a very good camera. 

Mike Sowsun
S110, SL1, 80D, 5D Mk III
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Frequent Contributor
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎04-14-2014

Re: Does spending more mean getting less?

I am going to run it through some more tests to be sure, but I expect it to be at least as good as my old setup.  Initially I have not found that to be the case, but I am willing to give it a little more time.  Apparently Tamron has superior image stabilzation because I will be 60 next year(so not as steady as a younger person) and I have taken remarkable shots with it at low shutter speeds.  I like to be able to shoot unimpeded by tripods, which slow me down and cause me to miss shots.  Before I went camera shopping I asked for advice on DPReview and nobody responded.   I just wish I could find a camera that works well in a variety of conditions.  I can't imagine photographers actually enjoy lugging around a ton of equipment and missing shots while they are busy deciding what will work best for a certain situation.  It seems like you must have thousands of hours of experience working with these tempermental tools and a whole lot of luck to ever achieve world class.  But I have already won two international awards so far this year, so maybe I never should have tried to change what is already working.  

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Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 2,373
Registered: ‎11-14-2012

Re: Does spending more mean getting less?

When you can't get good results go back to the basics. A sturdy tripod & a test subject, good light & decent shutter speeds. Isolate which component is the problem, which is often the person hand holding. Until you know whether it's the camera, lens, settings etc you're just banging your head against the wall. Test for front or rear focusing, test with IS or VC off if on the tripod, test at different shutter speeds & different apertures. Test for consistency. After each shot manually focus the lens away from it's setting so that the AF has to re acquire for EVERY shot.

"A skill is developed through constant practice with a passion to improve, not bought."
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Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 3,849
Registered: ‎06-11-2013

Re: Does spending more mean getting less?


@Cindy-Clicks wrote:

I will take your word for it for now but I can tell you that the new camera does not seem all that much different in my hand and I was able to take consitant shots with the T3i at a focal length of 300mm and 1/13 sec. with great clarity.  And the T3i shutter  is much clunkier.   I just don't appreciate spending a lot more money with the expectation that the performance will be better.  I just want a camera that will do what I want it to.  Tools should be a help and not a hinderance.  If camera companies want to appeal to world-class photographers, they would build a camera that would make shooting easier, not harder.  


You don't get to take photos at 300mm and 1/13th of a second unless you have a non-moving camera (e.g. tripod or equivalent) and a non-moving subject (in the case of a flower you'd need to have a calm moment -- no wind).  It does not matter what lens you have or if the lens has image stabilization features.

 

The rule for a "full frame" camera is that typically the shutter speed needs to be the inverse of the focal length of the lens (or faster) in order to avoid shake on a hand-held shot when there is no image stabilization.

 

Image stabilization will buy you somewhere between 2 to 4 stops of slower shutter speeds... but it's not like 1, 2, 3, and 4 stops slower will be perfect and suddenly 5 stops slower will be terrible.  It's a bit of a continuum.  1 and 2 stops slower will probably be perfect.  3 stops will likely be good.  4 stops MIGHT be good.  5 stops will probably not be good.   BTW... only SOME lenses have good enough IS to claim 4 stops of stabilization.  Many can only claim 3 or 2.

 

There is no 1/300th shutter speed... the closest is 1/320th so we'll have to go with that and count down.  Also note that these shutter speeds are for a full-frame camera.  For a crop frame camera it would be the focal length X the crop factor as the minimum.  In other words a T3i at 300mm with no image stabilization needs a shutter speed of 1/480th or faster to avoid blur caused by camera movement.

 

Assuming the full-frame 6D where 1/320th is the minimum, here are the speeds.

 

1 stop slower is 1/160th

2 stops slower is 1/80th

3 stops slower is 1/40th

4 stops slower is 1/20th

 

You want to take a shot at 1/13th... that's not do-able regardless of the camera or lens.  You'd have to get very lucky.

 

Also... image stabilization only helps in situations where the camera is moving.  If the subject is moving it cannot help that situation.  

 

Tim Campbell
5D III, 5D IV, 60Da
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