DSLR 101 2.0

[ebiggs1]

Maybe you will like these better.  I try to please! 

All with my best of class, 1.3 body the EOS 1D Mk IV.  Birders favorite camera!  I love this camera. 

[RobertTheFat]

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@jazzman1 wrote:

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

I have no idea nor do I understand what you are talking about????????????????????????

"how can a range of 300 mm with my lens be less than 1/3 yd.

I am beginning to think you don't read my entire posts.  Either that or you do not comprehend what I am saying.  Maybe some others can throw some better info on the subject.

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I read your posts, sometimes 2 or 3 times.  I don't always understand what you're telling me, like with this "mm" stuff.   I think part or most of the problem is this process we're using on this site.   Nothing like being in a classroom in person.  Nothing like having direct contact with pupli and teacher.  You have to account for that.   It's hard to sometimes convey exactly what you mean, and how you mean it here, or other forms of "email." in a teaching learning situation.   Not even as good as the phone, or skype, or any number of other avenues of conversation.   So we both have to make the ajustment if we are to continue this.

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"This 'mm' stuff" is something that a student in any U.S. public school system should have covered by the seventh or eighth grade. (Sooner, actually, but that's an issue beyond the scope of this discussion.) If you didn't, you have some serious catching up to do; and this is not an effective place to do it. By and large, the denizens of this forum have neither the time, the patience, nor the teaching skills to turn it into a classroom. (They know it, BTW; you must have noticed that only you, Ernie, and I ever contribute to this thread.) You need to start doing a lot of reading on your own and/or find some adult education classes you can take to fill the gaps. If you don't do that, but still have designs on becoming a serious photographer, you're sure to be disappointed.

There's a trap in the way photography is presented to the public in today's society. Low-end cameras have become so good, and so automatic, that many newbies conclude that photography is easy and that if they keep upgrading to better and better equipment, they'll continue to become better and better photographers. Unfortunately, it isn't true. Though mediocre photography is easy, good photography is hard; and it requires a knowledge base and skill level that are far deeper than most people imagine. You either acquire the requisite knowledge and skills or you don't. With only rare and statistically unimportant exceptions, good photographers came from the ranks of those who do.

[ebiggs1]

Amen!

[jazzman1]

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@RobertTheFat wrote:

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@jazzman1 wrote:

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"This 'mm' stuff" is something that a student in any U.S. public school system should have covered by the seventh or eighth grade. (Sooner, actually, but that's an issue beyond the scope of this discussion.) If you didn't, you have some serious catching up to do; and this is not an effective place to do it. By and large, the denizens of this forum have neither the time, the patience, nor the teaching skills to turn it into a classroom. (They know it, BTW; you must have noticed that only you, Ernie, and I ever contribute to this thread.) You need to start doing a lot of reading on your own and/or find some adult education classes you can take to fill the gaps. If you don't do that, but still have designs on becoming a serious photographer, you're sure to be disappointed.

There's a trap in the way photography is presented to the public in today's society. Low-end cameras have become so good, and so automatic, that many newbies conclude that photography is easy and that if they keep upgrading to better and better equipment, they'll continue to become better and better photographers. Unfortunately, it isn't true. Though mediocre photography is easy, good photography is hard; and it requires a knowledge base and skill level that are far deeper than most people imagine. You either acquire the requisite knowledge and skills or you don't. With only rare and statistically unimportant exceptions, good photographers came from the ranks of those who do.

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Well Bob you've said a mouthful here.  Don't know where to start.   Ok "MM"...math was my worst subject in school, but still I don't remember much taught about mm.  Before now I mainly only heard it mentioned by trade guys...carpenters, electricians, machanics, etc.  I never had a need to use it...till now.  Maybe I do have some serious catching up to do.

On newbies thinking buying pro gear will make them great pro's, you're wrong if you think that includes me.  And I've heard different hints at this a time or two.   I buy the gear I do because I like quality gear, no matter what.   I always buy quality tools, over the cheap stuff.  I've had cheap screw drivers break and bend on me.  I'm bought a bargain audio reciever only to take it back to get the quality gear I should have bought, instead of trying to save money.  I bought one of the top level of the line HD Plasma TV, for the same reason.  I would'nt be happy with the cheaper sets cause they don't have the features I deem most important.  In TV/Audio gear, more better features and quality I like, usually only come on the premium gear.  It's no different in photgraphy.   I don't buy stuff for bragging rights, not even my car....least not anymore.   I'm not gonna spend hard earned money just to impress others.   Now I don't usually buy good quality products to become an expert in it.   I buy it for my pleasure in using it.  Now that I've experienced good quality camera's and lens, I would buy no less even if I only intend to take pics of the birds outside my window once in awhile.  I would never...I mean "NEVER"...think buying Pro Gear would make anyone a Pro.  And at this point I'm not trying to be one.....in fact I told you guys that more a few times.  I only want to learn how to use my gear, learn photography, and have fun.  In fact, the more I hear about the issues guys have in pro work, being a pro is not so entertaining anymore.  Probably just wishful thinking on my part anyway, when I said it.  But I'm going to buy the best quality gear I can afford and try best as I can to enjoy my photography.  To me that's what it's all about, doing something I love.    can live with less than L lens as long as the IQ satisfied me.  I'm sure some mid level lens can do that.  I don't just have to have L's.  I do want quality lens no matter the class of lens.  I am looking at your Mark lll for the long term when I decide on FF.  Not to be a pro, but cause of it's abilty in low light.  I'm investing mostly in f/4 lens and now know I will need a camera excellent in low light.  But by the time I make that move, there may be a new body out that would be better, even cheaper, and I will choose that one.

Yes, I've noticed none others replyed here.  Did'nt give it much thought why.  I did kinda think they thought this was Biggs thing, and out of respect, stayed out his way.  I also know some may have "PM" you or biggs, or you and biggs may have "PM" eachother.   But I understand the difficulty trying to teach this way.  I can't think of a worst way.  I've considered that in all the responses from you and biggs.  So I took care in not getting bent outta shape over something said, or knocked off my squire when I don't understand something.  I know it's very easy to misjudge someones intent, or their meaning.  And many can not get accross with good understanding here, what they mean, or trying to say.  That's the nature of this process and I understand that..

Thanks for this response my friend, I wondered why you had not answered to a few of my reply's.  But that's Ok , I have to accept it as a judgement call, and you have to do what you think best.  I still respect your knowledge.

[jazzman1]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

Amen!

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Me too 

[jazzman1]

. The editor can handle it if it has the lens data. This stuff should be covered in the DPP manual. Shame on Canon if it isn't

Don't fault Canon just yet, I did'nt even look.  I thought better to ask you, since I seem to understand stuff explained by you and Obiwan, much better than many manuals and help files.   Man, some of the manuals and help files leave a whole lot to be desired....least by me.   Many, I don't think, are written very well, and I've always wondered if some help/manuals instructions were actually written from guys using them in practical application.   Many seem to be computer generated to me.   Something a machine would write.  Some have no logic or reason.

[ebiggs1]

Man I don't even now where to start with all that goings on!

But I will start with, you are no anywhere near your own worst critic.  Believe me!  Probably photography and music are the most brutal and cruel disciplines a person can enter.

Not to hit you too hard and possibly letting you see how, at least in this 'critics' eyes what you did and are doing wrong. Neither photo was staright. Period.

I simply loaded each into LR and let LR do its bacis 'one click' corrections.  Now remember this is very basic and a person can do way more with careful edits.

 I was hoping you got the new bigger monitor?  Did you?  If you did not LR and even DPP is a waste of time and money with LR.  LR has the lens correction built in, for your lens, and this is what it did.  Remember this is its basic settings.

Look these over very carefully on your new, hopefully, monitor.  If you do not see any improvement, cancel your order for LR.  It will be a waste for you.

In the second picture, do you see the buildings?  How correct they seem?  In the first do you see the shore line was no where close to how it should look?  Now it is.   Do you see the lens corrections in both?  How about the deeper saturation of colors?  Don't the shadows show up now?  Do you see the better definition?

Now as for buying all that stuff, DO NOT BUY STUFF BECAUSE OF ME!  Buy the gear that suits your need and requirement.  You are not a pro shooter and you will never subject your gears to the abuse I have. (In the past I hope.)  The third party collar would likely be OK.  

I just sent off my 1Ds Mk III along with the 85mm f1.2L to CPS because it had a rough tumble at a shoot yesterday.  Broke the filter on the front of the 85.  I doubt either is damaged but it was time for the Mk III's annual check-up.  I am thinking this is the last year I do annuals as I am not shooting like I used to.  I will get the Mk IV done as soon as the 3 is back.

You know the old saying, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Well if you have thin skin don't go into photography or music either for that matter.  Its tough.........................

[jazzman1]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

Man I don't even now where to start with all that goings on!

But I will start with, you are no anywhere near your own worst critic.  Believe me!  Probably photography and music are the most brutal and cruel disciplines a person can enter.

Woooooha hold your briches Obiwan  , you're runnin out the barn like ya behind is on fire 

Not to hit you too hard and possibly letting you see how, at least in this 'critics' eyes what you did and are doing wrong. Neither photo was staright. Period.  Come ahead, I'm all ears

I simply loaded each into LR and let LR do its bacis 'one click' corrections.  Now remember this is very basic and a person can do way more with careful edits.

 I was hoping you got the new bigger monitor?  Did you?  Yes I did    If you did not LR and even DPP is a waste of time and money with LR.  LR has the lens correction built in, for your lens, and this is what it did.  Remember this is its basic settings.

 Looks really nice., I like these results.  The colors actually look better, more natural.  Even the clouds look more defined.

Look these over very carefully on your new, hopefully, monitor.  If you do not see any improvement, cancel your order for LR.  It will be a waste for you.  I got the monitor 1080P HD and I see much improvement from my originals.  But I'm on my older laptop monitor right now and I still see all the same stuff.  This monitor is 720P HD and I still see it all.  Looks good Obiwan. 

In the second picture, do you see the buildings?  How correct they seem? Yep, I see them   In the first do you see the shore line was no where close to how it should look?  Now it is.  I can see that.  But I said mine was off when I posted them.   Much better now    Do you see the lens corrections in both?  How about the deeper saturation of colors?  Don't the shadows show up now?  Do you see the better definition?   Everything looks better, straighter, more clarity and definition.  Now I can see the guys plain by the rail fishing.  They were hard to make out before.

Now as for buying all that stuff, DO NOT BUY STUFF BECAUSE OF ME!  Buy the gear that suits your need and requirement.  You are not a pro shooter and you will never subject your gears to the abuse I have. (In the past I hope.)  The third party collar would likely be OK.

    This I did'nt do for you I'm sorry, I did it for me.  Really did Obiwan.  I was sick of myself not getting my pics right.  I felt LR was the only answer and i really want to be satisfied with my pics and finally agreed with you about LR.  It was my choice, and my choice only.  I wanted the Black Rapid Sling because it has an extra strap that goes under the arm.  Not just because you have one.   My sling kept sliding down off my shoulder, sliding down to my camera.  I got tired pulling it backup right, on my shoulder.   If I could have found a cheaper sling with that extra strap that I like, I would have gotton it.  I did check before I decided.  I decided on the Canon mount for me too.  I would have beat myself up forever if that 3rd party lens mount would have failed and damaged my camera, lens, or both.   I got too much money invested in my gear, my money is hard earned, I want the best use from it.  I  do think it was too much Canon charged for the ring mount, but hey, I got peace of mind.  Far as the 50mm, I already told you I planned to get it.  I just moved the purchase up a month or so.  Actually, I'm glad I got it  all, now I can sit back and enjoy taking pics for awhile.  I won't feel like I'm needing something and don't have it.   Don't take what I said to Bob so serious, I was only funnin.  Did'nt you see the smiley faces?????   I'm good my friend.  My funds are good too, I'm not as hard up as I sounded.  I will never spend money I can't afford to spend.  You can take that to the bank

I just sent off my 1Ds Mk III along with the 85mm f1.2L to CPS because it had a rough tumble at a shoot yesterday.  Broke the filter on the front of the 85.  I doubt either is damaged but it was time for the Mk III's annual check-up.  I am thinking this is the last year I do annuals as I am not shooting like I used to.  I will get the Mk IV done as soon as the 3 is back.  You and Bob must have some kind of service plan with Canon for your gear.  From how you guys talk about your service calls I get that immpression.

You know the old saying, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Well if you have thin skin don't go into photography or music either for that matter.  Its tough.........................Well, I'm still here in the kitchen   

I told you I wanted you to give it to me straight....straight up with no chaser   I need constructive critisism.  I think you and Bob are 2 of the good guys and I don't believe either of you would say something negative just to hurt someone...anyone.  So, although a time may come when some things you guys say may not feel so good, I believe if you two do say it...............it's something I need to hear, and It will make me be better in photography.  I can't give you two any better vote of confidence than that.   Guess you can take it for what you think it's worth !!!!!!!

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[RobertTheFat]

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@jazzman1 wrote:

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

I just sent off my 1Ds Mk III along with the 85mm f1.2L to CPS because it had a rough tumble at a shoot yesterday.  Broke the filter on the front of the 85.  I doubt either is damaged but it was time for the Mk III's annual check-up.  I am thinking this is the last year I do annuals as I am not shooting like I used to.  I will get the Mk IV done as soon as the 3 is back.

You and Bob must have some kind of service plan with Canon for your gear.  From how you guys talk about your service calls I get that immpression.

We subscribe to Canon Professional Services (q.v.), a service and support program oriented toward pros and semi-pros with a lot of Canon equipment. It's worthwhile only if you really depend on your gear and need it to be in top condition at all times.

[jazzman1]

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@RobertTheFat wrote:

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@jazzman1 wrote:

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

I just sent off my 1Ds Mk III along with the 85mm f1.2L to CPS because it had a rough tumble at a shoot yesterday.  Broke the filter on the front of the 85.  I doubt either is damaged but it was time for the Mk III's annual check-up.  I am thinking this is the last year I do annuals as I am not shooting like I used to.  I will get the Mk IV done as soon as the 3 is back.

You and Bob must have some kind of service plan with Canon for your gear.  From how you guys talk about your service calls I get that immpression.

We subscribe to Canon Professional Services (q.v.), a service and support program oriented toward pros and semi-pros with a lot of Canon equipment. It's worthwhile only if you really depend on your gear and need it to be in top condition at all times.

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i kind of figured as much

[ebiggs1]

You are shooting RAW?

Why are you setting anything?  Peripheral illumination correction or any, well most, of the other settings that the camera can apply are not recoreded.  These are added by you in post.  When you set stuff like that, the camera makes a small data file, sometimes called a 'sidecar' to tell the editor, "Hey this is what I think he wanted."  But you, not the camera, tell the RAW file how you really want it.  And of coures it makes a new sidecar. 

At this point you are rushing ahead too fast.  You need to slow down and start learnig how to use what you have and how it works.  Stop buying stuff.  You are bound to make mistakes until you get farther along.

What you really need is that gooder, better monitor.