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Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,735
Registered: ‎02-28-2013

Re: Canon 7DII


@HPL wrote:

Guess we're just not as smart as you.


That was my conclusion as well.

Valued Contributor
Posts: 425
Registered: ‎01-19-2014

Re: Canon 7DII

[ Edited ]

Ironic that digital photographers desire the print that their cameras were meant to replace.

 

I like print too. Spent the better part of my professional career creating print for my clients only to see the demand for printing dry up as digital media became its replacement. Software publishing is a growth industry in today's economy, as is internet publishing, broadcasting and search. Among industries that were hardest hit by the recession last economic downturn is commercial printing and those jobs will probably never come back.

 

You could blame Canon for being "too cheap" but the truth of the matter is that printers have gone out of business in droves and the remaining printers face less competition and that constrains pricing. In addition, there are fewer print jobs to go around, which increases the cost of producing that work. (Paper pricing, ink, bindery services, and other materials and related services are priced, in part, on demand.) So, where you see a company that is cutting corners unfairly, I see a company that is backed into a corner by fundamental changes in media.

 

Frankly, anyone that argues that they have room for a manual but not  a "reader" of some sort, is shouting foul into the blare of modern trends. The argument against printed manual has always been that it is difficult to separate what you need from what you have to carry, especially true when you physically carry to the info. No one needs everything printed in the manual "all the time," just those pages that are pertinent to the inquiry. As such, manuals are regularly left behind. IMHO, it would be wiser to "put" the manual where it is most readily available and therefore most like to be used rather than try to "train" photographers' to rely on printed manuals.

 

I am convinced that no one cares about such stuff as a "book" per se. Except those suffering from nostalgia or are wickedly inflexibe.

Frequent Contributor
Posts: 70
Registered: ‎11-14-2012

Re: Canon 7DII

Amazing that the manual has become the big issue of this post. It is a personal choice of carrying or not of a printed manual.  What about going back to discuss the +/-s technical aspects of the new camera?

Valued Contributor
Posts: 425
Registered: ‎01-19-2014

Re: Canon 7DII

You brought it up. Just saying...

HPL
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 34
Registered: ‎10-19-2014

Re: Canon 7DII

[ Edited ]

"Amazing that the manual has become the big issue of this post. It is a personal choice of carrying or not of a printed manual. What about going back to discuss the +/-s technical aspects of the new camera?"

 

 

Actually, a big part of this discussion was that one actually doesn't have the option of carrying a true printed manual

anymore unless one wishes to print it onesself since Canon no longer makes a full printed version (not even for purchase).  Can be hard to judge the attributes of a piece of equipment unless one is thoroughly familiar with those attributes. ;-)

 

"Ironic that digital photographers desire the print that their cameras were meant to replace."

 

Although I do enjoy some of the aspects of digital image capture, I changed to digital not because it was something I wished to do, but rather because of the pressure of the marketplace.  Oh, and I carried the manuals to my film cameras also.

Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,735
Registered: ‎02-28-2013

Re: Canon 7DII

[ Edited ]

@HPL wrote:

 

Actually, a big part of this discussion was that one actually doesn't have the option of carrying a true printed manual

anymore unless one wishes to print it onesself since Canon no longer makes a full printed version (not even for purchase).


That’s correct, and I agree, it would be nice if Canon made it an option. However, from the business end, implementation is never as easy as people imagine. There would be a significant (99.9%?) decrease in the amount printed, and therefore the price of maufacturing them would go up substantially. Most likely the cost to get a manual to someone, even at cost, would be more than people would be willing to pay. Which, I’m going to guess, is why they don’t offer them.

HPL
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 34
Registered: ‎10-19-2014

Re: Canon 7DII

As a CPS member I can always call the hotline if I have a question and since I have been deprived of easy access to a manual (I neither have nor wish to have a smart phone) they will be hearing more from me in the future (have already spoken to them six or eight times in the last ten days since I recieved my 7D MkII).  Problem is I  don't always have good reception and sometimes I would prefer a quietier solution.

Valued Contributor
Posts: 425
Registered: ‎01-19-2014

Re: Canon 7DII

People that want print are rarely satisfied with anything but print. That said, the vast majority of skilled photographers are carrying some sort of pdf/epub reader. (A smartphone, a tablet, a Kindle/Nook/etc., or notebook.) I don't think we're exploring any new ground as far as trends go.

 

It does seem shortsighted of Canon to not offer a printed manual, especially if this is a important feature for some buyers. Even to offer them for purchase would seem fair but I understand a predicament for companies that want to reduce print waste. Despite the insight offered by the posters here, I still think the vast majority of printed manuals are forgotten or abandoned.

 

I wonder If you wouldn't benefit from an aftermarket guide? When I had my Nikkormat, I occasionally referred to a small printed guide written by the AMPHOTO Editorial Board. It was a compact little book, hardcover yet only 126 pages in length. As technically advanced as that Nikon SLR was at the time, it was nothing compared to the complexity of a modern DSLR so I would expect any modern printed version to be very large.

 

I wonder if you might find a small printout of the more frequently consulted sections might be sufficient.

Valued Contributor
Posts: 425
Registered: ‎01-19-2014

Re: Canon 7DII

[ Edited ]

@HPL, I love the way you use the word "deprived". It suggests that you are "owed" something which is really weird because you don't have to buy anything. If anyone deprived anyone anything, it was you that deprived yourself of a camera with a manual. Life didn't just happen to you.

 

@Edward, okay enough about manuals. I agree with Skirball, you muddied the water so completely with the use of a telephoto extender, upscaling of images, etc. that a fair side-by-side image comparison is impossible. None the less, I applaud the effort.

 

You mention the labels being "backwards" but without comment to the previous 7D. When comparing the 7D2 with the 7D (or 5D3 for that matter) one notices that all the labels are reversed and this appears very intentional. The previous labeling had the first "feature" corresponding to the rear wheel and the second "feature" corresponding to the top wheel. As the top wheel is considered the dominant wheel, I think it makes sense to list the feature to which its use corresponds first.

 

I'd be interested in reading more of your comments. Keep them coming.

HPL
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 34
Registered: ‎10-19-2014

Re: Canon 7DII

[ Edited ]

>cale_kat

 

"@HPL, I love the way you use the word "deprived". It suggests that you are "owed" something which is really weird because you don't have to buy anything. If anyone deprived anyone anything, it was you that deprived yourself of a camera with a manual. Life didn't just happen to you."

 

OK, perhaps this suits you better: 

 

...since Canon, in its infinite wisdom, has decided that print manuals, that is to say words printed on paper or something very similar to paper, and then bound in what would easily be recognized to most as a what is commonly referred to as a book,  are obsolete, and since I neither have, nor wish to have, a smart phone, nor wish to carry another expensive, battery powered, relatively fragile piece of equipment into the bush, they will be spending significant time actually talking to me in the future.

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