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Occasional Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎11-07-2018

Canon 6D Mark II Video - FPS vs Shutter Speed

Hello everyone,

 

I just sent a message to Canon's customer service letting them know about my huge disappointment with the 6D Mark II, not just because of my current issue but for all the other issues there are with this camera which has a lot of potential but they seem to have not put any desire into making this an awesome camera.

 

In this specific case, my latest issue is the video frame rate and the shutter speed. The "golden rule", so to speak, is that the shutter speed should be double of the frame rate (this is actually the 180 degree rule). This allows for a natural motion blur when taking videos with any camera. Today, as I was testing the camera with and without an ND filter, specifically for this same reason (when shooting video in a very bright day, and to avoid increasing the shutter speed, an ND filter is the best solution to get proper exposure), I noticed a very interesting and disturbing problem.

 

Anyone familiar with video knows that shooting at 23.98 fps or 24 fps is the best frame rate to achieve the closest cinematic look possible. When shooting at this rate, the closest shutter speed to 48 is 45, since the next step is 60. To my surprise, using the 45 shutter speed would create same effect on the video as when using a higher shutter speed than double the frame rate. The video looks ridiculously jumpy. Even when going down to 30 on the shutter speed, it still looks jumpy. Of course, the next number is 25 which at this point it creates too much motion blur.

 

My question is, how Canon missed this problem? Even more, how they haven't released a firmware update to fix this issue? Am I the only one with this problem because of my camera being bad or is this a common problem for all 6D Mark II owners?

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VIP
Posts: 8,179
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Canon 6D Mark II Video - FPS vs Shutter Speed

[ Edited ]

You are talking about Shutter Angle, which is described in degrees.  What shooting mode are you using?  Why are you shooting at 1/40, anyway?  [For those not familiar with Shutter Angle, please see the link below.]

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_disc_shutter

 

When I shoot video, I always shoot in M mode because it offers the greatest flexibility.  If I set my 6D2 to a movie frame rate of 23.98fos IPB MP4, I can set an one of the following shutter speeds 1/25; 1/30; 1/40; 1/50; 1/60; 1/80; 1/100; 1/125;1/160; 1/200; etc.

 

Suggested shutter angles for filming are the following: 180; 90; 45; etc.

 

At your frame rate of approximately 24fps, the suggested shutter speeds would be: 1/50: 1/100, 1/200; etc.

 

Why are you shooting at 1/40?  What result did you expect?

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Occasional Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎11-07-2018

Re: Canon 6D Mark II Video - FPS vs Shutter Speed

Hi @Waddizzle and thank you for the reply. Yes, when I said Shutter Speed I'm referring to Shutter Angle.

 

I always shoot raw, for me no other setting exist in my cameras whether I'm shooting photos or videos. It's a habit I forced myself into so I could learn to use my cameras properly to have more control over them.

 

Anyways, back to the videos and shutter angle settings. I didn't say I shoot at 1/40, I shoot at 1/45 when using a frame rate of 23.98, which you being familiar with the 180 degree rule, you'll understand why I do that. 

 

The shutter Angle (or speed) formula says

1

------

(2x fps)

 

So basically, applying this rule, the following should be used to achieve proper and natural motion blur based on the only options I get with my 6D Mark II

 

23.98 fps - 1/45

29.97 fps - 1/60

59.94 fps - 1/125

 

These shutter angles or speed are the closest to the true value to use which would have been 1/48 for 23.98 fps and 1/120 for 59.94 fps.

 

Other video cameras offer more video frame rates such as 

24 fps - 1/48
25 fps - 1/50

30 fps - 1/60
50 fps - 1/100

60 fps - 1/120

and so on.

 

With that out of the way, and hopefully being clear about how following this rule and values will provide natural motion blur, I'll make reference to my original post. 

 

When shooting at 23.98 frames per second, I should be using 1/45 for the shutter angle/speed in order to get a natural looking motion blur, but this isn't the case. The results I'm getting is a super jittery image with little motion blur. Not even using 1/30 which in theory should be adding excesive amount of motion blur is useful because it sitll doesn't add enough motion blur, but instead the image is still jittery. Only when I use the next available setting which is 1/25 I get motion blur, but at this point it is way too much of it, and the image doesn't look natural.

 

I hope I was able to clarify my issue and why I still believe that unless my camera is deffective, Canon messed up big time with this issue.

VIP
Posts: 8,179
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Canon 6D Mark II Video - FPS vs Shutter Speed

I see two problems. One, your math is a little fuzzy, so take a look at the link I posted.

Two, I posted the relevant range of shutter speeds in my 6D2. My range is the factory default. Your range of Exposure Level Increments is set to 1/2 stop, instead of the default 1/3 stop.

You need to change your increments back to 1/3 stop.
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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Occasional Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎11-07-2018

Re: Canon 6D Mark II Video - FPS vs Shutter Speed

I apologize ahead of time but I'm going to have to disagree with you.

 

1- My math is far from being "fuzzy". In fact, I honestly believe you're a little confussed about how to apply this rule to digital video, in this case with DSLR cameras.

 

2- The ranges I am giving you are what my camera provides, they're not made up numbers, they are the only values available when either rotating the dial wheel by the shutter button, or by changing it with the display's touch screen.

 

Besides the point I'm a video editor for a living for a National TV Network station, which forces me to be familiar with frame rates, image quality, etc, I also shoot video as a hobby because it is a passion of mine, which is why I am aware of this issue and can see and understand what's wrong with the image quality I am getting off the Canon 6D Mark II when shooting at 23.98 frames per second and using the above mentioned digital shutter speed.

 

While I appreciate the link you provided, which mainly refers to mechanical shutters and makes little reference to digital shutters for video and not giving any actual examples, here I am providing you a couple of links of my own. Again, my point is that you're confussed about what the issue is, and you're failing to understand that for a DSLR when shooting video, your camera's shutter MUST be double of what your frames per second is in order to achieve NATURAL motion blur.

 

https://vimeo.com/blog/post/frame-rate-vs-shutter-speed-setting-the-record-str

 

http://www.dslrvideocollege.com/shutter-speed-for-dslr-video

 

https://www.videomaker.com/videonews/2013/07/4-steps-to-understanding-shutter-speed

Occasional Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎11-07-2018

Re: Canon 6D Mark II Video - FPS vs Shutter Speed

By the way, here's another link that could be useful for you to understand more this FPS vs Digital Video Shutter Speed

 

http://noamkroll.com/5-essential-settings-you-need-to-double-check-before-shooting-video-on-your-dsl...

VIP
Posts: 8,179
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Canon 6D Mark II Video - FPS vs Shutter Speed


@RebelPro wrote:

By the way, here's another link that could be useful for you to understand more this FPS vs Digital Video Shutter Speed

 

http://noamkroll.com/5-essential-settings-you-need-to-double-check-before-shooting-video-on-your-dsl...


I guess that there is a topic that you have failed to fully grasp.   I have known someone who has been a professional cameraman for four decades. He was the personal cameraman for a network news anchor.  Yeah, they have those.  If you are as experienced as you claim, then you know that the top people have personal camera operators.

 

Back to your issues with the 6D2.  All of your issues are of your own making,  You have changed a default setting and you need to change it back.  It is just that simple.  All you have to do is go into the menu and be enlightened.

 

I challenge you to into the C.Fn.I Exposure [1] , Exposure Level Increments menu.  I guarantee you that it is set to [1/2] stop, and that if you reset it back to the default setting of [1/3], then all of those shutter speeds that you claim are missing will miraculously appear.  

 

Or, go into the Yellow [5] menu, and select “Clear All Camera Settings”.  Take your pick.  Problem solved.  

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Occasional Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎11-07-2018

Re: Canon 6D Mark II Video - FPS vs Shutter Speed

As soon as I have the camera in front of me, I'll clear all camera settings, in case somehow the settings have been changed (something I know I haven't done) but I prefer to try all possible solutions. 

 

I will also post my next answer with screenshots of the camera display as well as the video samples, both before I reset the camera settings and after I do. Only then we'll know if it fixes the problem, but ahead of time I will tell you, if you truly believe that the number circled in red (digital shutter speed) shouldn't be double of the value circled in yellow (frames per second), as showin in the image I'm including, in order to have a natural looking motion blur, I'm sorry to tell you you are completely wrong about it. This is a sample image not from my camera, but clearly illustrates that when shooting at 29.97 fps the digital shutter speed should be at 60, just like when shooting at 23.98 the digital shutter should be at 48 or the closest value to that number.

 

canondisplay.jpg

VIP
Posts: 8,179
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Canon 6D Mark II Video - FPS vs Shutter Speed

[ Edited ]

Your biggest problem is your refusal to simply check your camera’s menu.  

 

BTW, it did not change itself.  Did you buy a used camera?  If you did, then you should have reset all settings back to factory defaults, anyway.  If bought the camera new, then you have gremlins in your house that are changing settings in your camera.

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Occasional Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎11-07-2018

Re: Canon 6D Mark II Video - FPS vs Shutter Speed

I got good and bad news. The good news is that I cleared all the settings. The bad news (for you) is that it didn't solve the problem, something I already knew.

 

For whatever reason you still don't get the rule, the issue, the outcome of this video settings, and as a long time contributor to this forum based on the amount of posts you have here and the title the forum assigned to you, I'm surprised you still don't get any of what I'm saying.

 

Once again, in order to get natural motion blur when recording video, the camera's digital shutter speed MUST be double of the frames per second at which the camera is recording. You can change it to any other setting as you please, but that is totally a user's decision and it will NOT help achieve "natural motion blur". And as you will see in the video below, my camera, a 6D Mark II only has 25, 30, 45, 60 (and higher shutter speeds) at 23.98 fps. 

 

If you still disagree with this rule, even though I've posted plenty of links for you to understand it, and hopefully learn how this rule works, I really can't do anything else other than to suggest you to go to Youtube and watch videos that explain this better and visually.

 

In any case, the problem with my camera still persists and Canon hasn't gotten back to me to help me figure out what's wrong with the camera.

 

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