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Frequent Contributor
Posts: 100
Registered: ‎09-13-2014

5Ds or 5DsR

I am considering purchasing the newer Canon 5D series.

 

I have a 40D & 7D

 

Several Canon EF Lenses, 28-135, 16-35L, 100L, 70-200

 

The differences as I understand from the reviews the 5Ds ia more of an out of the box where the 5DsR is more of a manual settings version.

 

The price is similar however i have yet to hear from someone who actually has oone.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 5,009
Registered: ‎06-25-2014

Re: 5Ds or 5DsR


@Mitsubishiman wrote:

I am considering purchasing the newer Canon 5D series.

 

I have a 40D & 7D

 

Several Canon EF Lenses, 28-135, 16-35L, 100L, 70-200

 

The differences as I understand from the reviews the 5Ds ia more of an out of the box where the 5DsR is more of a manual settings version.

 

The price is similar however i have yet to hear from someone who actually has oone.


No, the difference is that the 5DsR trades the ability to avoid certain (rather uncommon) illusions in the image in favor of a minuscule (some say largely hypothetical) increase in sharpness. That's an oversimplification, but it's 2:00 AM here, and I'm too sleepy to try for a better explanation. Suffice it to say that if you have to ask the question, you probably don't want the 5DsR.

 

Both the 5Ds and the 5DsR are highly specialized cameras with certain drawbacks for general use. Be very sure you want and need one before buying it. If you're not sure, buy a 5D Mark III instead.

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA
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Re: 5Ds or 5DsR

"... in favor of a minuscule (some say largely hypothetical) increase in sharpness."

 

For the average and general photographer this is correct.  The 5D Mk III is the better choice. The 5Ds has a similar filter and sensor which is found on the 5D Mark III. This results in significantly higher resolution and requires the best of lenses which would not include the ef 28-135mm for instance.  You may need to use "L" primes to get the most out of one.

 

The advice of keeping all your gear essentially equal will be of top priority with a 5Ds.  Monitor, printer, etc, too.

EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and several lenses!
Honored Contributor
Posts: 5,009
Registered: ‎06-25-2014

Re: 5Ds or 5DsR


ebiggs1 wrote:

"... in favor of a minuscule (some say largely hypothetical) increase in sharpness."

 

For the average and general photographer this is correct.  The 5D Mk III is the better choice. The 5Ds has a similar filter and sensor which is found on the 5D Mark III.

 

I don't think that's quite what you meant to say. The only major common feature of the sensors of the 5Ds and the 5D3 is size. The pixel density of the 5Ds is much higher, giving you increased resolution at the probable cost of low-light performance (at which the 5D3 excels). And as you say, the increased resolution is pretty much useless without a top-notch lens.

 

This results in significantly higher resolution and requires the best of lenses which would not include the ef 28-135mm for instance.  You may need to use "L" primes to get the most out of one.

 

The advice of keeping all your gear essentially equal will be of top priority with a 5Ds.  Monitor, printer, etc, too.


My feeling is that those who need a 5Ds or a 5DsR will know that they do. Everyone else should leave those cameras alone.

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA
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Re: 5Ds or 5DsR

Bob from Boston,

Very likely true!  But we all need to learn.  Some the expensive way.

EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and several lenses!
Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 3,815
Registered: ‎06-11-2013

Re: 5Ds or 5DsR

I do not have a 5Ds/5Dsr but I do have a 5D III and a friend of mine has a 5Dsr.

 

The body and controls appear to be nearly identical.  If we put tape over the badge so that you couldn't know what model it was, you probably would not be able to tell by looking at the control layout.

 

The 5D III is a better general purpose camera with more overall versatility.

 

The 5Ds and 5Dsr are specialty high-resolution cameras which are not necessarily suitable for general-purpose use.  They tend to be used in situations where the photographer has more control over shooting circumstances.  This include studio use, landscape use, architecture use, etc.  where your subject isn't a fleeting moment, you can use a tripod, you can use lighting and light modifiers, etc.

 

Also implied is that you print... and you print BIG!

 

As was mentioned in a response to another recent post... the difference between the 5Ds and 5Dsr is all about the anti-aliasing filter.

 

When you take a photo of images have certain patterns in them (grid-lines -- the sorts of things that would appear in rows of bricks on a building, or fabrics in fashion photography, etc.) using a sensor with neat rows and columns of "pixels", then the resulting image would have a moiré pattern.  (See:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moiré_pattern )

 

To get around this problem, an anti-aliasing filter is present in most digital cameras and this filter is located just in front of the imaging sensor.  It substantially reduces the moiré effect, but at the trade-off of also very slightly "softening" the image.

 

When someone spends a considerable amount of money for a camera to massively increase the resolution of the image, they are probably trying to capture fine details beyond those which a more general purpose camera would capture.  In other words... they want "sharper" images.  

 

SO... Canon makes an edition of the 5Ds called the 5Dsr which eliminates that anti-aliasing filter so that you get no softening whatsoever.  But this IMPLIES that you understand what that means... if you take photos of images that are prone to generate moiré you are going to be disappointed.  

 

True "nature" doesn't typically have nice neat rows and columns -- and so probably will not be prone to create moiré.  For these types of subjects, the 5Dsr can produce images that may be just the tiniest bit sharper.

 

But if you are shooting "man made" subjects (architecture, products, certain fabrics with patterns or textures) then you may end up with moiré if you use a 5Dsr and for those situations the 5Ds would be the better choice.

 

And to Bob's point... there's just a little more to it because if you shoot using a high f-stop then you incur diffraction in your images which will limit the ability to resolve fine detail.  This is somewhat at odds with the idea of a "high resolution" + "landscape" because usually landscape photographers do want a very broad depth of field (e.g. f/11, f/16, etc.) and the physics of light diffraction mean that the very high resolution sensor is diffraction limited at f/8 and even starting to get diffraction limits at f/5.6.  So in other words you'll get the sharpest results when shooting f/4 or lower -- which a landscape photography is unlikely to use.  These limitations are based on laws of physics and the math of diffraction assumes "perfect" optics... so no amount of money on a better camera or a better lens will be able to skirt around this limitation.  SO... not just "any" natural subject will get a benefit from the use of the 5Dsr.

 

The ISO performance of the 5Ds and 5Dsr isn't quite as good as the 5D III -- so it's not suitable for low light photography (not unless you've got a tripod and the ability to take longer exposures.)

 

Also... as was previously mentioned, you are using a sensor with the ability to resolve fine detail and that's not going to help if you use it with a lens that does NOT have the ability to also resolve fine detail.  In other words... if you buy a 5Ds OR a 5Dsr you should own a lot of "L" series lenses and resign yourself to only buying the highest quality glass for your camera.  Otherwise it would be like buying a very high performance sports car... and putting budget tires on it.  Don't do that.

 

If your images are intended to be viewed on a computer screen, then there's not much point in owning a camera that has resolution far beyond what any computer monitor can display.   But if you like printing large images at high DPI then it's nice to have a very high resolution sensor.

 

One last thing (because believe it or not this actually does happen with these cameras)... people buy the camera... and then COMPLAIN that the images are HUGE and they take too much disk space.  High res images take a lot of disk space.  If you don't have a lot of disk space or the thought of spending more money to buy external storage or storage arrays is more than you budgeted for... then these very high resolution sensor cameras are not for you.

 

But... if you understand the storage requirements, love to print your images and love to print big, own high-end glass and don't have a problem with the price tag of high-end lenses, then nothing else on the market can provide the staggering amount of resolution as these cameras.

 

So while the difference is simple (the presence of the anti-aliasing filter), the implications of that difference are technical and nuanced.  The cameras wont just be "better" for anyone -- they would only be better in the right circumstances.  This is likely why Bob says "those who need the camera(s) will know that they do."

 

 

Tim Campbell
5D III, 5D IV, 60Da
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Re: 5Ds or 5DsR

"... if you buy a 5Ds OR a 5Dsr you should own a lot of "L" series lenses and resign yourself to only buying the highest quality glass for your camera."

 

And all "L" glass may not even be up to the task either.  Lens selection will be critical if you want the best the camera can provide.  And to do, what with it?  Certainly need to consider how the product it provides will be used.

EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and several lenses!
New Contributor
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎03-17-2016

Re: 5Ds or 5DsR

How is either with video? low light video? 

 

Thank you

Honored Contributor
Posts: 5,009
Registered: ‎06-25-2014

Re: 5Ds or 5DsR


@DJSLOW wrote:

How is either with video? low light video? 

 

Thank you


I think you'd have to be crazy to use either of those cameras for video. Unless, of course, it's the only camera you own.

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA
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Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: 5Ds or 5DsR


@DJSLOW wrote:

How is either with video? low light video? 

 

Thank you


I would not purchase either 5Ds model to shoot video.  The design goal seems to have placed a priority on shooting still images, over capturing video.  There are other models, most are less expensive, which could do just as good, if not better, job as the 5Ds models at shooting video. 

 

Low light?  Buying a digital "cinema" lens, which usually have WIDE apertures is one good approach.

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