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Occasional Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎04-23-2018

Help on moiré and noise on videos

[ Edited ]

HI there,
I am new to videography with DSLR, I just bought a 700d to get myself on the learning track with both photos and videos.
Basically yesterday I went outside (as my aim is to make sports videos and travels) with the standard 18-55 lens aiming to try and learn the settings of my camera
After watching some tutorials I set up the camera as PAL 1920 x1080 25 fps / 1/50 / ISO 100 in sunny daylight. On camera was kind of ok, but once watched on my computer I noticed I was getting a lot of noise in my shadows, plus things like foliage, tiles, bricks, railings or any detailed pattern around were getting lots of moiré / aliasing effects.
I then noticed that these effects were less with a wide focal length, more with a closer one.

Following some tutorial suggestions I lowered the shutter speed to 1/40 and then to 1/30, then I went to set my picture scene to neutral and I lowered the sharpening at 0, same for contrast. Then I lowered just a bit the colors and saturation trying to obtain the flattest scene possible. As of the last thing I did put my WB in "sun" preset. The whole thing solved almost completely the moiré and but unfortunately, I could still see some aliasing here and there where the sun was hitting harder on roof or bricks in the background. The noise instead was still there in my shadow.

So I went testing the same scene with different f-stop (from 3.5 to 22) at different ISO (from 100 to 400) and even if it solved a bit at certain combinations, the noise and the aliasing were pretty much always there more or less.

Last thing last I repeated the whole test with my 50mm 1.8 and even if it was better, still was not smooth as it should be in my opinion.

Now, the questions I have are:
Is there anything I am missing, doing wrong?
Having the shutter speed that low could be a problem on fast moving (sports) scene / fast panning? If yes how can I address the issue without getting back the moiré / aliasing effect?
Are there any kind of antialiasing filters to help to solve the issue?
What can I do to reduce noise at maximum with my camera?

Anything you can suggest will be really appreciated, I would like to get the best out of this camera before considering anything different. Thanks a lot to anyone that will take the time to reply to this long post. 





Super Contributor
Posts: 262
Registered: ‎02-13-2016

Re: Help on moiré and noise on videos

I'm assuming that you're in a region of the world that uses the PAL broadcast standard, though I don't really know how that affects viewing on a computer monitor.

Noise issues in still photos are usually the result of shooting at high ISO and longer exposures in low light conditions. At 1/30 or 1/60 of a second at ISO 100 in daylight noise shouldn't be a problem though. Are you viewing raw video from the camera or have you converted the video to MPG, MP4 or some other format before viewing?

Occasional Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎04-23-2018

Re: Help on moiré and noise on videos

oHI BurnUnit,
thanks for your reply here, finally someone did it.
I don't think choosing PAL rather than NTSC makes any difference on youtube videos or similar platforms, but will dig a bit more into it, never knows and anyway is always good to learn something more.

For the noise I think a better lens with a proper ND filter should solve most of the problem for my videos. 
Regarding aliasing and moire, the only solution I found to get better results is to change the position of my camera till I find an angle where the sensor does not get the effect.

My camera is recording only in MOV, so my raw videos are in that format. 

Super Contributor
Posts: 262
Registered: ‎02-13-2016

Re: Help on moiré and noise on videos

So are you seeing the noise when you pause the video or when viewing at normal speed? What software are you using to view the video and have you tried it on another video player like VLC, Media Player Classic or Irfanview?

Do you have any kind of video editing software? It would be helpful if we could see even a 15 or 30 second segment of the affected video just to make sure that what you're seeing as "noise" is what we think of as "noise". I can't imagine a more upscale lens or using a ND filter is going to have much effect on a noise issue.

As for getting a moire pattern in your video sometimes just zooming slightly in or out might help reduce the problem.

Occasional Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎04-23-2018

Re: Help on moiré and noise on videos

Hi. gosh, you made me thinking at something here.
I was previewing my footage with normal windows app coming with Win 10, called Films & Tv.
I am using Adobe Premiere for my footage but I didn't watch the footage with Pr honestly. And now you made me thinking I should have done that probably.

Will try to do the same test footage during the weekend, it should be sunny (hopefully) here in Uk and see what happens with noise and moire.

Thanks for your suggestion, will post again soon.


Occasional Contributor
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎01-24-2018

Re: Help on moiré and noise on videos

I just logged on because I had noise questions too...in video.

I pretty much never exceed an ISO of 100. And definitely nothing over 200. I shoot with Rokinon prime lenses and the 50mm (all decent, fast apertures). And I still get all kinds of noise in low light.

I shot some quick video of my fiancé in the doorway around dusk. I also shot a quick bit while at work under a street light. Still a bunch of noise. Is it the camera or what?

I would like to be able to shoot nice sharp night scenes that don’t involve me carrying lights around.

What am I doing wrong?
Super Contributor
Posts: 262
Registered: ‎02-13-2016

Re: Help on moiré and noise on videos

Well if you're in the UK you're right to be shooting in PAL then.

If you're in the mood to experiment a bit more try shooting some still shots at 100 ISO at 1/30 and 1/60 second. Shoot a scene similar to the video you shot at close to the same lighting. Then see if you notice noise in the same areas of the photos as in your videos.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAhN57lFn7A

I've shot a little video with my 60D and even at 1600 ISO I was pleasantly surprised with how clean the results were. This was shot with the 18-200 Canon kit lens... Nothing too fancy there.


Occasional Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎04-23-2018

Re: Help on moiré and noise on videos

Hi again,
so I did my assignment during the weekend. I made two real quick videos while outside to show you what is happening to me and what I mean for noise, aliasing and moiré problems.

First video https://youtu.be/nL9xnJhY1Zs. Look at railing and bricks for aliasing and moiré. Look at the shadow down the balcony for the noise. You have setup indication on screen.

Second video https://youtu.be/qCbCuYF6DK0 it was shot at Sherwood forest, setup indication at the beginning and problems highlight during the video.

 

I know that particular colors, geometric patterns, and foliage are more subjects to get these effects but I would like to understand If there is anything more than what I have tried to get out of these situations.
I see around many videos from same camera and even way better ones with similar issues so I know I am not alone here.
Any good suggestions will be much appreciated.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 6,546
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Help on moiré and noise on videos

I think you might be pixel peeping too much.

 

I suggest that you always take a number of stills when you do a shoot.  The stills can also serve as WB references.  I also suggest that you consider the resolution of video.  Take a couple of stills at the camera’s highest resolution.  Next, dial the resolution down to be comparable to HD video, and then compare the results of the two stills.

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Occasional Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎04-23-2018

Re: Help on moiré and noise on videos

[ Edited ]

@Waddizzle wrote:

I think you might be pixel peeping too much.


Ahahahah thanks for your reply, I see your opinion here.

I appreciate your suggestions about taking still photos first, is something I do regularly for the WB.
Regarding comparing stills to actually see the downsample result, I think I understand where you want to bring the discussion here.


The thing is, I know why cameras are creating the moiré/aliasing effect, what I do not know is how expert people tackle the issue, what kind of solutions "pros" are putting in place to have smooth, not pixelated videos published. Clean videos are out there, lots are taken with my same camera, meaning it is possible. What I am asking here is HOW. That's it.

If anybody has real tips or good suggestions, pro suggestions on how to tackle the issue, will be much appreciated.
I can see that from my i-mac screen the issue are a bit less visible than from my BenQ screen at home, but still the image look like a real low quality one, worst than my phone, so there must be a solution somewhere. 

Thanks to anybody  

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