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Thoughts on EOS R1 sensor

Frito-1
Contributor

Hi All,

I have to admit that the 24MP sensor in the flagship camera is a bit of a disappointment.  I would like higher resolution without having to use PhotoShop to stitch pictures together.  Any one know why Canon did not go with a resolution closer to the R5?

Thanks in advance,

Fred

72 REPLIES 72

Stephen is spot on, the 1 series has historically been focused upon a fairly narrow market segment with a brief aberration into the "studio" S suffix variant.  Fortunately, the 1 series has stayed focused upon its target market needs.

For any level of sensor technology, a smaller pixel count with larger photosites will provide better low light performance than the same technology with a higher pixel count and resulting smaller individual photosites.  For those of us doing a lot of limited light shooting, how the sensor performs in terms of noise and DR in limited light is critical and I wouldn't hesitate to choose a 20 MP sensor with significantly better low light performance over the prior generation instead of a new 30 or 40 MP sensor that only delivers equivalent low light performance to the prior generation.  As to data processing/workflow/storage, any system that handles a 40 MP sensor image well will handle a 24 MP sensor even faster.  I use twin CPU HP workstations for photo/video work and you can NEVER have too much processing and storage but you can definitely have awkwardly large files.

As to file size, it IS what the 1 series market wants and Canon has a long history of success in this market.  The other even more critical requirement for the 1 series market is near perfect reliability and that is what I will be watching most closely before even considering making a transition from my 1DX III bodies to the R1 and quite frankly I have not been impressed with that aspect of the R line so far so the R1 needs to get it right.  Miscellaneous unexplained lockups, overheating, random glitches, and the like are not acceptable where the 1 series plays.  The 1 series has to offer rock solid reliability under conditions that the photographer hates to work in and I have experienced that plenty with my 1 series bodies in over two decades of 1 series usage.

Pixel count is one measure of performance but one that the consumer market is fixated on, see phones for example with ridiculous pixel counts using a tiny sensor and "just good enough" optics.  There has long been a parallel in the transportation/logistics industries where many consumer diesel pickups have higher horsepower ratings than semis BUT a truck powertrain is perfectly focused upon its intended market.  You can't fit 16 liters of engine in a pickup truck engine compartment, the front suspension won't support the weight, and the customer wouldn't like the price/performance/handling.  And a commercial firm expects to get into the million mile range before a major overhaul on a semi-tractor powertrain which spends long days 7 days a week hauling heavy loads and a small displacement light diesel won't deliver that under sustained heavy usage.  Both transportation choices are built for their specific markets and if someone buys a product intended for a very different market, they won't be very happy with the result.

I own two extremes in the Canon line, with a pair of 1DX III bodies and a pair of 1DX II bodies but also a little "baby" M6 Mark II purely as a light small convenient camera for use where I don't need a "real" camera but want a camera that handles like a camera instead of part of a phone.  I also own a pair of 5DS R bodies but if high MP count becomes a focus, I would be looking at medium format systems.

Rodger

EOS 1DX M3, 1DX M2, 1DX, 5DS R, M6 Mark II, 1D M2, EOS 650 (film), many lenses, XF400 video

MVP 🥇

You're assuming that there has to be a tradeoff: e.g. 20-ish mp and good performance vs 50mp and poor performance.

This is not the case now.

Advances in sensor technology deliver more resolution with less noise.  This is what we have in the Nikon Z9 and the Sony A1.  (The A9iii has a global shutter and that's a different animal altogether).  Canon seems to have been unable to deliver on the 'more resolution' part.  They achieve low noise by using low mp count.  Again, their sensor technology isn’t up to par with Sony and Nikon’s. 

Sony and Nikon's current pro bodies offer (roughly) 50mp with seemingly excellent performance in all other aspects.

bro. you're obviously a troll.

Do you own any of the cameras you're talking about? Have you used any of them? Do you own a camera at all?

Tronhard
VIP
VIP

Hi Fred and welcome to the forum:

I can tell you exactly why Canon didn't go with greater than 24MP.  Just read this: The Argument for Two Flagships 

Canon have always had a special model for those in the press profession because their needs are very specific and rigorous - and quite unique.  They don't have time to change batteries frequently, their cameras get tortuously treated and they are after enough resolution for the purposes of their publishers.  Those clients are doing their publishing on line, in digital form or in nothing bigger than a double-page magazine spread.   They want speed: of capture, of processing and saving, and in transmission.  Hi-res images of significant size are not conducive to that.

If you are not in that category, the camera was not designed for you.    If you are looking for larger-size images then the R5II is the camera you should be looking at.  Don't get seduced by the number on the box, look to the features and the benefits to you.


cheers, TREVOR

The mark of good photographer is less what they hold in their hand, it's more what they hold in their head;
"All the variety, all the charm, all the beauty of life is made up of light and shadow", Leo Tolstoy;
"Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase" Percy W. Harris

look at you, writing a whole article about it! I love the dedication! 

In one of my careers, I used to teach corporate marketing, sales and support and I am used to the phenomenon of people being beguiled by the concept of having "the best". I used to really emphasize that for customers, what the product does is far more important than what it says on the package. The best is what offers what one really really needs and can afford, and that has nothing to do with the model number.

Hence the lecture on 'dissertation'...

To quote one of my favourite photographers, Sean Tucker, on the fixation on camera models: "It's just a box with a brand name on it - don't get romantic about the camera, It's just a tool in your hand".


cheers, TREVOR

The mark of good photographer is less what they hold in their hand, it's more what they hold in their head;
"All the variety, all the charm, all the beauty of life is made up of light and shadow", Leo Tolstoy;
"Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase" Percy W. Harris

Thanks Stephen!


cheers, TREVOR

The mark of good photographer is less what they hold in their hand, it's more what they hold in their head;
"All the variety, all the charm, all the beauty of life is made up of light and shadow", Leo Tolstoy;
"Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase" Percy W. Harris

If you think that those brands are better, then the joy of a free society is for you to go and purchase one of those.  That is your privilege and right.   My right is to challenge the basic assumptions of your whole argument.

You are rubbishing a piece of gear you have yet to see in its production version, let alone handle one for yourself.    Your comments say more about  you than the camera you are so ignorantly critiquing.


cheers, TREVOR

The mark of good photographer is less what they hold in their hand, it's more what they hold in their head;
"All the variety, all the charm, all the beauty of life is made up of light and shadow", Leo Tolstoy;
"Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase" Percy W. Harris

"Advances in sensor technology deliver more resolution with less noise.  This is what we have in the Nikon Z9 and the Sony A1."  

Not to mention the fact that R1's 40fps lags well behind the 120fps that better cameras in the segment offer -- along with greater resolution and lower cost. Canon dropped the ball on this one, but could redeem itself by making their cost more competitive. Admittedly an unlikely prospect. 

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