R5 - Seeking Cause Of and Solution To Digital Banding

[ronlyonphoto]

Ex: house lights up1/500, 2500, f/2.81/500, 2500, f/2.81/500, 2500, f/2.81/50, 2500, f/2.81/160, 2500, f/2.81/500, 2500, f/2.8R5 Users......Looking for solution to what I have been told is a "refresh rate" problem. Currently using two R5's (using RF70-200mm f/2.8 USM L and EF16-35mm f/2.8 USM L lenses) to shoot a theater production. The venue uses primarily digital lighting system with a white digital backdrop screen. The issue is I am getting RGB color bands in my photos above 1/200. The color bands are not as strong at shutter speeds under 1/200, but at speeds higher than 1/250th, the colors become much denser and at times completely change the screen to color. Shutter speeds of 1/160-1/200 are about as low I can go before blurring begins. At 1/50th, the screen is close to white, any slight tint at that time is from overall ambient stage light.

Obviously the camera and the lighting system are working against each other. I've included some examples with settings. Anyone have experienced this situation and have a solution? Is there any in-camera settings that will help to minimize or match the refresh rates of the two systems, if in fact that is what the problem is?

Thanks for your assistance.

[Peter]

Turn on anti-flicker and keep the shutter speed close to 1/50 or 1/60 sec.

[ronlyonphoto]

Shooting at those low shutter speeds is a problem since this is live action stage actors and dancers in relatively low light. A perfect storm if you will. Will turn on anti-flicker though continue to search for solutions. Thank you. 

[ebiggs1]

"... keep the shutter speed close to 1/50 or 1/60 sec." "...those low shutter speeds is a problem since this is live action stage actors and dancers in relatively low light."

Actually a 1/60 SS is still pretty fast for humans. Not always for sure but in your low light situation you may find it usable certainly worth a try. You can try going as high as 1/100 or even 1/120.. Keep in mind all photographic gear has its limits to what it can do even with all the great models we have available today. There still will be a limnit.

Secondly banding can be eliminated or at least improved in Photoshop. I can think of several methods I would try.  Adding noise, flattening layers, dither, adjusting curves, and using a surface blur and remember layers and masks are your friend in PS.

[Waddizzle]

Banding in photos captured in a dark nightclub with numerous flashing and strobing lights is an issue that is being raised more and more frequently.

 The basic problem is the extreme environment, not the camera. The camera is capable of compensating for one set of digital lighting gear and lights.  Problems begin when you introduce multiple sets of lights, particularly when they operate on different phase of power. 

[p4pictures · Accepted solution]

The issue is the digital projection. This typically projects the colours individually at a quick rate, switching the colours so the human eyes see the “correct color” not the components. When you set the camera shutter speed fast enough you will only allow the camera to see part of the light hence you capture bands of colour. Slower shutter speed is the only way unless faster digital projection is possible. 

[ronlyonphoto]

Thank you Brian. Others have suggested using anti-flicker mode to help tamp down the visual effect. Is that what it was designed for or is it just a coincidence that it can counter the banding visually?

[p4pictures · Accepted solution]

There are two anti-flicker modes they work differently but I'm not sure that either will help you here.

Anti-flicker - EOS R5 and EOS R5 Mark II - adjusts the frame rate of continuous shooting to time the frames to fit with the lighting - designed for indoor sports in the main where arena lighting can fluctuate at 50/60Hz mains frequency. 

High frequency anti-flicker - EOS R5 Mk II - allows you to set fractional shutter speeds to reduce the chance of high frequency flickering from LED lights showing as banding. 

The issue you have is that the projector is outputting different colours at different times, unless you have the shutter open long enough to allow a full cycle of colours you won't get ride of the colour banding. 

[ronlyonphoto]

Boom! That is the technical explanation I’ve been looking for. Thank you Brian. I shoot many different venues, indoor and outdoor, sports and entertainment, and theater where the anti-flicker option should be of help. Going to dig into this. Thank you to all the forum members for the help as well.