Accidental Lens Release

[michaelgirman]

  My 24-105L just fell off my 5D mkIII and rolled into the Seine.  The lens release button is way too sensitive and it is so easy to accidentally unlock without realizing it.  I went to twist the zoom ring and the lens rotated and dropped off.  Blogs are full of compaints of this occurance on mkii's.  

  This is definitely a design flaw.  It's not user error.  The button should be relocated or made to require more force to release  or have a detent position.  

  It's a shame that you have to gaffer tape a $2300 lens to a $2000 camera.  Be forewarned.  

[ebiggs1]

"Sounds to me like there are a handful of people that need to review how they handle their equipment given that there are hundreds or thousands, perhaps millions, of Canon DSLR users worldwide that don't seem to be having a problem with it."

I agree. Going on 50 years of daily use of Canon gear and it hasn't happened to me.  Using cameras from the 1D to the1D Mk IV and even the 5D to the 5D Mk III.  I feel for these folks but I do think they need to really revisit how they handle their gear.

[schmegg]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

"Sounds to me like there are a handful of people that need to review how they handle their equipment given that there are hundreds or thousands, perhaps millions, of Canon DSLR users worldwide that don't seem to be having a problem with it."

I agree. Going on 50 years of daily use of Canon gear and it hasn't happened to me.  Using cameras from the 1D to the1D Mk IV and even the 5D to the 5D Mk III.  I feel for these folks but I do think they need to really revisit how they handle their gear.

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Yep - because it hasn't happened to you then there isn't a problem. Very good. Thanks.

[Waddizzle]

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@schmegg wrote:

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

"Sounds to me like there are a handful of people that need to review how they handle their equipment given that there are hundreds or thousands, perhaps millions, of Canon DSLR users worldwide that don't seem to be having a problem with it."

I agree. Going on 50 years of daily use of Canon gear and it hasn't happened to me.  Using cameras from the 1D to the1D Mk IV and even the 5D to the 5D Mk III.  I feel for these folks but I do think they need to really revisit how they handle their gear.

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Yep - because it hasn't happened to you then there isn't a problem. Very good. Thanks.

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It stretches the limits of beliefs that everyone who has had a lens unexpectedly drop off, that it was caused by a manufacturing defect, and not operator error.  

If you have suffered a costly loss because your gear dropped, then you have my sympathies.  But, to automatically and categorically rule out any possibility that you could have unknowingly triggered the release is simply outright denial, plain and simple. 

Such denials, is probably why their lenses fell off in the first place.  They.just simply were not paying close attention, and cannot come up with a better excuse.  It has nearly happened to me.  But, I caught myself in time.

If you [plural] wish to deny the possibility of operator error, then more dropped lenses is in your future.  Good luck.

[schmegg]

Beats me why, when a few people express their concerns with a design feature, that some feel it's necessary to defend that feature and imply that those affected are in some way incompotent. But, it happens on forums - much more than in face-to-face interactions.

The fact remains, over the years the lens release button has grown larger and more prominent. And, even for those of us that have been using this gear for over three decades, it now occasionally seems that lenses can be released without the express intention of the photographer.

I'm sure that on some of these occasions the photographer was purely negligent in mounting the lens etc. I'm also sure that in some other cases, the photographer has had plenty of experience and has carriued out all due diligence and has still had a lens come loose.

It's the later that concerns me and I'd like to bring that to the attention of Canon so that they may consider it further in future designs.

Those chiming in with unhelpful diatribe about the ineptitude of the operator are, in my mind, simply trolling the subject - probably because they are massive brand fanboys. And there's nothing wrong with loving a brand, but, if you truly love it, you'll want it to continue to develop its designs in a sensible direction. And part of that process is taking feedback - both good and bad - from its customers.

I, and some others here, are trying to give that feedback. Continual rebuttal by others is neither helpful nor constructive.

Thanks for nothing.

[RobertTheFat]

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@schmegg wrote:

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

"Sounds to me like there are a handful of people that need to review how they handle their equipment given that there are hundreds or thousands, perhaps millions, of Canon DSLR users worldwide that don't seem to be having a problem with it."

I agree. Going on 50 years of daily use of Canon gear and it hasn't happened to me.  Using cameras from the 1D to the1D Mk IV and even the 5D to the 5D Mk III.  I feel for these folks but I do think they need to really revisit how they handle their gear.

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Yep - because it hasn't happened to you then there isn't a problem. Very good. Thanks.

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Much has been written in this forum about that problem. You should read it all, taking particular note of the fact that some ways of holding the camera can put your left hand in contact with the lens release button, while others probably can't. So if, as some claim, the release button is too easy to press, you should at least be able to minimize the risk.

[schmegg]

Yeah. I agree Bob that there should (and are) ways to circumvent a nasty surprise by modifying the way the gear is handled.

Clearly the lens just doesn't unlock by itself - some amount of physical interaction is required to make that happen. I guess that makes those who've had it happen easy targets. Hehe.

ebiggs1 has an extra twenty years with Canon gear over me and he's had no problem. There'd be many, many thousands of others who've had no issue either.

My reason for joining this thread was simply because I have been a Canon shooter for over three decades and I've only recently had this happen to me after all those years. I've not become less diligent or careful with the way I handle my gear, but the situation regarding confidence in the lens mount, at least for me, has changed. And, coupled with this is the fact that the lens release button has become larger and easier to push.

Might be a coincedence, or, as I feel, they may be related. I tend to think they are related based on my experience. I can understand why others, who have plenty of experience with Canon gear but have not encountered the issue might feel otherwise.

Anyway - I don't know if I'm right in connecting the recent trend for larger, easier pressed lens release buttons with the recent 'accidental' release of a couple of my lenses, but I'd really like it if Canon considered this going forward. That's all. Nothing more.

Appologies if I seem to be labouring the point. Just trying to counter the dismissal peddled by others because I can assure you that I am careful with my gear, delibrate with its use and have decades of experience, most of which saw mounted lenses stay assuredly and safely on the body. I'd be happy to leave it at that but there seems to be a couple of people here who jump back in, without having experienceed the issue, to dismiss it as user error. I'm sure sometimes that's the case. I'm also sure that sometimes it's not so cut and dried.

[Waddizzle]

Schmegg,

If you make the assumption that it is always your fault, an accidental release may never happen to you again.

I used to work with electronic technicians troubleshooting control systems.  I would sometimes step in, and help them trace down a nagging problem.  Most of the time, and I mean most of the time, we would find a wire connection that had somehow come apart, and became separated from a terminal strip.

The wires had "ring" shaped connectors on the ends.  The rings resembled a washer.  The terminal screw had to be removed so that the "ring" connector could be put in place before the terminal screw was threaded down.  It was a very secure arrangement.

Somehow, we would open a panel and find that wire disconnected from the terminal, yet the screw was still in place on the terminal.  Obviously, someone had removed the wire in the course of their troubleshooting in another nearby panel, and had simply forgotten to restore a connection.  It's an easy, though careless, oversight to make.

However, some of the technicians would never admit to such an oversight, as minor as it was.  The cost of re-attaching a wire is only a labor cost, not a material cost.  The techs would argue that the wire had come loose on its' own.  Of course, the odds of a screw removing itself, and then replacing itself, are within the realm of possibility, but truly astronomical just the same.

The Canon EF mount has been in use for decades, and it seems to have changed very little over time.  Yet, in recent years their has been an apparent rise in the number of people suffering from lenses spontaneously dropping off of the cameras.  So, what has changed?

 I don't think the lens mounts have changed, but I do think they way people use and carry their gear has changed.  Most of the complaints on this thread have come from people carrying their camera/lens combos in a sling, or otherwise handling their gear in a hundred different ways, except actually using it to shoot photographs.  

In othe words, all of these accidental releases seem to have one thing in common.  They seem to occur immediately after the gear had not been handled for a period of time, just like the wires that had come apart in the terminal cabinets I inspected with technicians.

[schmegg]

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@Waddizzle wrote:

Schmegg,

If you make the assumption that it is always your fault, an accidental release may never happen to you again.

Hehe. Yep. Get your drift here. And that has been exactly my approach.

I used to work with electronic technicians troubleshooting control systems.  I would sometimes step in, and help them trace down a nagging problem.  Most of the time, and I mean most of the time, we would find a wire connection that had somehow come apart, and became separated from a terminal strip.

The wires had "ring" shaped connectors on the ends.  The rings resembled a washer.  The terminal screw had to be removed so that the "ring" connector could be put in place before the terminal screw was threaded down.  It was a very secure arrangement.

Somehow, we would open a panel and find that wire disconnected from the terminal, yet the screw was still in place on the terminal.  Obviously, someone had removed the wire in the course of their troubleshooting in another nearby panel, and had simply forgotten to restore a connection.  It's an easy, though careless, oversight to make.

However, some of the technicians would never admit to such an oversight, as minor as it was.  The cost of re-attaching a wire is only a labor cost, not a material cost.  The techs would argue that the wire had come loose on its' own.  Of course, the odds of a screw removing itself, and then replacing itself, are within the realm of possibility, but truly astronomical just the same.

OK. So here it seems you are once again subtly intimating that it's purely user error and has absolutely noting at all, in any way, shape or form, to do with the design of the gear in question. And that is where we differ in opinion my friend. 

The Canon EF mount has been in use for decades, and it seems to have changed very little over time.  Yet, in recent years their has been an apparent rise in the number of people suffering from lenses spontaneously dropping off of the cameras.  So, what has changed?

 I don't think the lens mounts have changed, but I do think they way people use and carry their gear has changed.

Yes. That is perhaps true. And it be prudent for manufacturers to be aware of the changing ways in which their gear is being used and continue to cater for that. IMHO.

 Most of the complaints on this thread have come from people carrying their camera/lens combos in a sling, or otherwise handling their gear in a hundred different ways, except actually using it to shoot photographs.  

Perhaps. But transporting a camera/lens combo is definitely part of the process of photography. And as slings have become much more popular (because they are very convienent) I feel it would be sensible for the camera design to evolve with this change. Once again, just my take on it.

In othe words, all of these accidental releases seem to have one thing in common.  They seem to occur immediately after the gear had not been handled for a period of time, just like the wires that had come apart in the terminal cabinets I inspected with technicians.

No, not like the wires in the cabinet at all. Certainly not in my case anyway. The fact that you think they are analogous tells me that you think I'm either lying about what happened or am mistaken about my own actions (like you'd know better!). You can probably understand that this rubs me the wrong way a little.

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[schmegg]

Waddizzle wrote:

Schmegg,

If you make the assumption that it is always your fault, an accidental release may never happen to you again.

Hehe. Yep. Get your drift here. And that has been exactly my approach.

I used to work with electronic technicians troubleshooting control systems.  I would sometimes step in, and help them trace down a nagging problem.  Most of the time, and I mean most of the time, we would find a wire connection that had somehow come apart, and became separated from a terminal strip.

....

Somehow, we would open a panel and find that wire disconnected from the terminal, yet the screw was still in place on the terminal.  Obviously, someone had removed the wire in the course of their troubleshooting in another nearby panel, and had simply forgotten to restore a connection.  It's an easy, though careless, oversight to make.

However, some of the technicians would never admit to such an oversight, as minor as it was.  The cost of re-attaching a wire is only a labor cost, not a material cost.  The techs would argue that the wire had come loose on its' own.  Of course, the odds of a screw removing itself, and then replacing itself, are within the realm of possibility, but truly astronomical just the same.

OK. So here it seems you are once again subtly implying that it's purely user error and has absolutely nothing at all, in any way, shape or form, to do with the design of the gear in question. And this is where we differ in opinion. 

The Canon EF mount has been in use for decades, and it seems to have changed very little over time.  Yet, in recent years their has been an apparent rise in the number of people suffering from lenses spontaneously dropping off of the cameras.  So, what has changed?

 I don't think the lens mounts have changed, but I do think they way people use and carry their gear has changed.

Yes. That is perhaps true. And it be prudent for manufacturers to be aware of the changing ways in which their gear is being used and continue to cater for that. IMHO.

 Most of the complaints on this thread have come from people carrying their camera/lens combos in a sling, or otherwise handling their gear in a hundred different ways, except actually using it to shoot photographs.  

Perhaps. But transporting a camera/lens combo is definitely part of the process of photography. And as slings have become much more popular (because they are very convienent) I feel it would be sensible for the camera design to evolve with this development. Once again, just my take on it.

In othe words, all of these accidental releases seem to have one thing in common.  They seem to occur immediately after the gear had not been handled for a period of time, just like the wires that had come apart in the terminal cabinets I inspected with technicians.

No, not like the wires in the cabinet at all. If the lens had not been correctly mounted in the first place - then, yes. But that's not the case here.

[TCampbell]

There are good & bad habits (or omissions of good habits) that can cause this sort of problem.

I have noticed my lens had become unlocked more than once (though I always caught it and no lens ever came off completely thanks to the large amount of rotation needed after releasing the lock) and I was baffled as to how it happened because I have good camera handling technique when I'm shooting.  But the emphasis is on "when I'm shooting".  

It turned out the fault was indeed mine.  When I retrieve my camera from the bag, I had a habit of grabbing the lens barrel by my left hand - and I'd grip it as close to the camera body as possible.  This put my thumb right up against that button -- and then I'd pull the camera out.  Just occasionally I was pressing the button and the "lifting" action was giving the lens just enough rotation that when my thumb was no longer pressed up against the button the lens wouldn't relock.

The solution is that I'm now mindful of how I grip the camera when I pull it out of the bag.

I also use a Black Rapid strap.  The camera attaches via the tripod bolt on the bottom of the body.  Black Rapid puts a big black rubbery washer down there so that it hopefully wont twist.  But some users claim the bolt came come loose.  Upon learning this, I REGULARLY check that my bolt is snug (many times per day).  I have never once found mine coming loose, but I still check it.   It's a good habit that takes just a fraction of a second and saves thousands of dollars in expense.

Developing good habits doesn't really take much effort and it provides good benefits.

Besides photography, my other passion is astronomy.  I love science.  I love physics.  I love the scientific method.  I tend to think along those lines.  

So when someone says "this problem is caused by that defect", I tend to look at the data.  I just can't get around the problem that "that defect" was causing "this problem" then every camera that has "that defect" should have "this problem" -- or at least quite a substantial majority of them.  But that's not really the case.  Hardly anybody has this problem.  So if I employ critical thinking ... it is not rational to believe that the design is actually "the" problem (it could still contribute to it).  There must be something else going on.

On the flip side, we can look at the human element, human habits and how masses of humans tend to think.

I have a friend who used to sell phones (for a major telco carrier).  I would occasionally hear stories about the latest customer experience.  One day he was telling me about a customer who walked in with their flip-phone (many years ago) which was clearly in two entirely separate halves (they're not supposed to come apart).  Inspection of the device CLEARLY showed it was physically stressed well beyond the breaking point (the phone was ripped apart) - whether deliberate or accidental.  The customer's story "it just broke".   His question "did you accidentally sit on it while it was open?"  Customer:  "no, it just broke".  "Did it accidentally fall a great distance or get stepped on?"  Customer:  "No, I just opened it to use it and it fell apart."

This customer was clearly "lying through all six rows of their teeth".  This story isn't all that unusual for these service reps.  They get the customer-is-in-denial or the customer-is-blatently-lying experience all the time.  They also get honest customers too... so it's not all bad.  

But my point is, if that design defect was 100% responsible for the problem and nothing else contributes to the problem, then lenses should be falling off all the time.  But the issue does seem to be quite rare.  This points to other contributing factors.  

I do find it "interesting" (from a human sociology perspective) that threads like this one point to a product defect almost exclusively without owning up to any other contributing factor -- such as operator error.

Do you REALLY believe there's ZERO operator error involved here?  I mean... c'mon... not even a little tiny bit?