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Frequent Contributor
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎05-30-2021
Accepted Solution

C70 a little soft?

Hi,

 

I'm wondering if C70 owners are seeing the images from the camera a little soft?  Is this a usual thing?

 

I recently got my C70 (a refurb unit) and started using it.  Overall I love it, but when I dropped some C70 footage into a project alongside some existing footage shot on a Sony PXW-X70, I was a little disapointed that the C70 footage was noticeably softer.

 

Since then I've shot a bunch of tests, covering:

 

  • both my lenses -- Canon RF 35mm STN and the Canon RF 15-35mm L
  • XAVC Long GOP, XAVC Intra, and MP4
  • Clog2 and Rec 709

Looks like the same results every time.

 

Now I'm aware that the X70 may be aggresively sharpening in camera, but it's odd (to me) that the Sony X70 on sharp +0 is significanty sharper than the C70 on +0 -- and even sharper than the C70 on +50, the max.  And the C70 just looks blurry.

 

Am I being over-paranoid?  Here are some samples...

 

C70 Sharp +0.jpg

 

C70 Sharp +50.jpg

 

X70 Sharp +0.jpg

Reputable Contributor
Posts: 752
Registered: ‎02-23-2020

Re: C70 a little soft?

From watching various YouTube videos on the C70, I recall hearing that Canon's cinema line produces softer images than what a typical DSLR would generate (e.g. EOS R5).  I don't know though if the cinema line is generally softer than typical camcorders as well, to include the PXW-X70.   One videographer ending up using a "Pro Mist" filter on the R5 to produce footage a bit more like the EOS C200.

 

I'm hoping to pick up the C70 tomorrow so looking forward to running various tests.  I no longer own my PXW-X70 though so cannot replicate this exact same test.

 

--
Ricky

EOS 5D IV, EF 50mm f/1.2L, EF 135mm f/2L, 600EX-RT (x6), ST-E3-RT
EOS C70, RF 24-70 f/2.8L IS
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎05-30-2021

Re: C70 a little soft?

Thanks for that; yes, I was wondering what the C200 and C300 would be like.  Maybe it's just that they do less to the image in camera.

Product Expert
Posts: 189
Registered: ‎07-03-2019

Re: C70 a little soft?

Hi AtticusLake,

 

Thanks for checking in with us!

 

Generally speaking, our professional-series cameras will have less digital sharpening added because some filmmakers and videographers like to add sharpening in post. I haven't seen anything to suggest that the EOS C70 is less sharp than our other Cinema EOS cameras though.

 

I would recommend that you clean the metal connectors between lens and camera with a lint-free lens cloth. Then try doing additional tests with different lenses. If you are consistently seeing soft results, you may wish.

 

If problems persist, I suggest that you email us at cinemaeos@cits.canon.com with details about your camera, your date of purchase, and the state from where you are sending the camera, and we'll walk you through the repair process.

Frequent Contributor
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎05-30-2021

Re: C70 a little soft?

Thanks Nick.  The more I look at my footage, specially newer footage, the more I think the softness is within the range of the camera's sharpening choices -- in other words, what you're saying.

 

I think my earlier tests had a lot of very diffuse light which really made them look bad compared to my Sony X70 footage, which was in a much clearer and contrastier setting.  The C70 is definitely softer, but the more I look at it the more it looks pretty minor.  Sharpening in Premire (using Lumetri sharpening at 100%) brings it right up.  Having to go 100% seemed odd too, but I guess Lumetri is really conservative about this.

 

Of course the X70 is going for a more out-of-the-box shiny look, so of course they're cranking it.  I really do appreciate that the C70 doesn't bake sharpening and noise reduction into my footage.

 

So, still getting used to my C70 -- and loving it.

 

Thanks again,

 

Ian

Occasional Contributor
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎10-06-2021

Re: C70 a little soft?

Very good quality.
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 29
Registered: ‎08-29-2021

Re: C70 a little soft?

I don't own a C70, but I do own a C300 MK III, and I agree that the 4k output can be somewhat soft.  That said, sharpneing in post allows one to fully compensate—assuming that the softness is not lens related—or, in the alternative, a profile can be set in-camera to add the desired amount of sharpening.

 

I had done some testing, with brand new Canon 'L' lenses and a Siemans Star Chart, for this when first receiving the camera.  While the resolution had been excellent, the level of perceived sharpness did not meet with my expectations and the addition of a small amount of sharpening in DaVinci Resolve had brought it up to speed. 

Frequent Contributor
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎05-30-2021

Re: C70 a little soft?

Thanks for the reply.  I've pretty much come to the same conclusion -- with a bit of sharpenng in post, I can get the sharpness I want without any visible artefacts.  I do it in post, 'cos I distrust in-camera sharpening -- though with the C70, it does seem very well done.

Frequent Contributor
Posts: 29
Registered: ‎08-29-2021

Re: C70 a little soft?

[ Edited ]

You're welcome, and I agree, sharpening in post is a better approach. 

Frequent Contributor
Posts: 29
Registered: ‎08-29-2021

Re: C70 a little soft?

[ Edited ]

Hello,

I had responded to this threat at the beginning, and had noticed 'soft' files when shooting 4k as well,  But I had resolved the issue and had intended to post my solution here, but got distracted with other, non video related issuies. 

 

That said, nowhere in the discusion—unless I had overlooked it—had there been any mention of the frame rates used.  I had been shooting with a frame rate of 29.97 when the C300 MK III had begun disgorging soft images/files.  I'd subsequently changed the frame rate to 59.94 fps and videos were then nice and sharp, and have remained so.  As an added benefit, the in-camera stabilization appears to be more effective at this frame rate as well, although that could be illusory.

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