First time user of DPP4 encountering an odd issue with cr3 jpg and picture styles

[MarkTwo]

Hello everyone o/

Below are screencaptures of DPP4 and Windows 11's File Explorer's view of a few photos. 
Notice  the difference between the cr3 and jpg in File Explorer.  So far  so good and  as expected. 
But  now  opening  that folder with the Picture Styled jpg's and the raw files  DPP4  presents me  with tonally identical looking images. 
I seem to be  unable to  revert  to the difference  as seen in the File Explorer's view of the raw files. 

Stumped!

[MarkTwo]

Basically  I would  like to start from that un-picturestyled raw file and work from there for an edit but  it seems impossible to  not deploy any picture style, one can only choose another  and I find no way to  'revert' to the raw image as exampled in File Explorer which shows the jpg with style applied  and the cr3  without. 

[jrhoffman75]

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@MarkTwo wrote:

Basically  I would  like to start from that un-picturestyled raw file and work from there for an edit but  it seems impossible to  not deploy any picture style, one can only choose another  and I find no way to  'revert' to the raw image as exampled in File Explorer which shows the jpg with style applied  and the cr3  without. 

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That is not directly possible in DPP4. When you open a RAW file in DPP4 it will apply the in-camera Picture Style.

Any RAW file viewer or editing software is applying its own interpretation of the RAW image.

You could switch the PS in DPP4 to Neutral and start editing from there. That PS has the least amount of settings applied.

Canon Knowledge Base - QuickGuide to Picture Style Settings and Customization

[MarkTwo]

Greetings from the Netherlands!  and thank you for taking the time to reply.

I was kind of hoping for a different answer, and still am sort of but considering your badge illuminary/legend   I am experiencing a slight crushing of those hopes lol.. 

Yes  there seems to be no 'standard' 'raw' viewing of cr3 files any place I try. 
When I open a fresh install of RawTherapee - and it looks like its perfectly aware of my camera and the lens used - I get a different again look of the cr3 files again..

[jrhoffman75]

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@MarkTwo wrote:

When I open a fresh install of RawTherapee - and it looks like its perfectly aware of my camera and the lens used - I get a different again look of the cr3 files again..

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Correct. Each RAW file converter presents its own conversion interpretation of the RAW digital data.

You will see discussions online that different folks prefer different software products for how they present image files. That is because the developers have to create the algorithms that read the file data and convert to visible colors. 

The only true display of a Canon RAW file colors is via the Canon software.

[johnrmoyer]

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@MarkTwo wrote:

Greetings from the Netherlands!  and thank you for taking the time to reply.

I was kind of hoping for a different answer, and still am sort of but considering your badge illuminary/legend   I am experiencing a slight crushing of those hopes lol.. 

Yes  there seems to be no 'standard' 'raw' viewing of cr3 files any place I try. 
When I open a fresh install of RawTherapee - and it looks like its perfectly aware of my camera and the lens used - I get a different again look of the cr3 files again..

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Greetings from Oklahoma. Some of my ancestors lived in The Netherlands several centuries ago and I have enjoyed visiting there.

I usually use DPP, but also use rawtherapee. The closest you will get to a "Standard" look is to use the "Standard" picture style in camera and view the out of camera JPEG. Then DPP will take the CR3 file and create a very similar JPEG unless you have configured DPP to use a different color space. For viewing on a screen with the greatest compatibility, I suggest sRGB. For printing I suggest a color space that can represent more colors than sRGB. It is necessary to use the same color space everywhere to get the image to look the same, but the viewing surface may also change the colors.

Good luck

[jrhoffman75]

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@MarkTwo wrote:

Greetings from the Netherlands!  and thank you for taking the time to reply.

I was kind of hoping for a different answer, and still am sort of but considering your badge illuminary/legend   I am experiencing a slight crushing of those hopes lol.. 

Yes  there seems to be no 'standard' 'raw' viewing of cr3 files any place I try. 
When I open a fresh install of RawTherapee - and it looks like its perfectly aware of my camera and the lens used - I get a different again look of the cr3 files again..

---

Most non-Canon software tools do not recognize the Canon Picture Styles. Some has implemented the capability, like Adobe Lightroom Classic.

Try this test: In camera set your Picture Style to Monochrome. Then open the RAW file in a software tool. Mosty likely you will have a color image.

[johnrmoyer]

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@MarkTwo wrote:

Basically  I would  like to start from that un-picturestyled raw file and work from there for an edit but  it seems impossible to  not deploy any picture style, one can only choose another  and I find no way to  'revert' to the raw image as exampled in File Explorer which shows the jpg with style applied  and the cr3  without. 

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I no longer use Windows since I no longer have an employer to require Windows. I hope some of this might be helpful anyway.

I use DPP4.

I do not know what the Windows File explorer is doing, but my first guess is that it would use the preview JPEG stored in the CR3 file. There is no color in an unprocessed raw, but processing the raw file creates the color. If Windows is not using the embedded preview in the CR3 file, then it is hard to guess what Windows might be doing. Setting the "Faithful" or "Neutral" picture styles in the camera will do the simplest changes to color. I prefer the "Standard" picture style usually as a starting point. The difference between the two views might be color space or ICC profile.

DPP will use the camera settings for the initial display. If you have a picture style selected in the camera, DPP will start with that. There are 5 color spaces that DPP can use. If Windows uses another, then the appearance will change. I do not have the same camera, but it might be worth checking the camera manual for which color space is being used in the camera.

https://cam.start.canon/en/S002/manual/html/UG-13_Setting_0010.html#Setting_0010_3

The DPP manual has a seciton on color-matching Windows monitors.

My own preference is to set sRGB color space in the camera and nearly always use sRGB for everything because my photos are usually viewed in a web browser. I have experimented with HDR PQ and like it better, but support for it is not yet everywhere.

https://cam.start.canon/en/S002/manual/html/UG-04_EditImage_0040.html

[MarkTwo]

I have a datacolor spyder 4 and my monitor is calibrated to 99% srgb and use srgb for everything yeah. The File Explorer preview of the JPG matches the tonality of the cr3 and jpg view in DPP3 - the cr3 file in Explorer shows the  'raw' cr3.  So far as I can tell this is  not a colourspace workflow issue =/

The cr3 file support in Windows specifically mentioned Canon raw file support down to the model in the documentation and it is as up to date as can be..

[MarkTwo]

I've tried 'neutral' etc in DPP4,  gamma correction etc, but  no matter what I do I can not bring back the detail that seems to have gotten lost.