topic Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D in Speedlite Flashes

Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

Chris_N — Sat, 05 Sep 2020 20:25:11 GMT

My Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash worked perfectly on my Canon 550D (Rebel T2i) and on my Canon 760D (T6s). I got perfect exposure with ETTL. However, On my Canon 90D it gives me about 3-4 stops of underexposure at iso 100. The other problem is that the ETTL will not automatically compensate for the changing iso. So using iso 200 increases exposure 1 stop, iso 400 - 2 stops etc. In theory, setting the iso to 800/1600 would compensate for the 3 or 4 stops of underexposure but that would give me a lot of grain. I prefer to shoot macro shots at iso 100.

All I can do is run a test exposure and dial in 3 stops of exposure compensation on my camera or on the flash which is very annoying. By that time, the subject may have disappeared.
I know the short answer may be that this flash is just not compatible with the 90D. I have no idea what the difference is in the firmware that makes the 90D handle flash differently compared to earlier Canon models.

I would appreciate any thoughts and suggestions to find a solution to this problem. Maybe, I have the wrong camera flash settings. I have firmware 1.1.1 which appears to be the latest one. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Kind regards
Chris

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

Ray-uk — Sat, 05 Sep 2020 16:14:54 GMT

What exposure mode are you using this in, you really need to be in manual to stop it acting as a fill light.

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

Chris_N — Sat, 05 Sep 2020 17:09:26 GMT

Thank you for your reply. Good point. I did all my tests with the camera in manual mode. Generally 1/200 sec, F8, iso 100 using my 60mm macro lens. But I still get the problem of 3-4 stops of underexposure.

Kind regards

Chris.

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

RobertTheFat — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 00:30:43 GMT

@Chris_N wrote:
Thank you for your reply. Good point. I did all my tests with the camera in manual mode. Generally 1/200 sec, F8, iso 100 using my 60mm macro lens. But I still get the problem of 3-4 stops of underexposure.

Kind regards
Chris.

I think Ray's point was that the flash has to be in manual mode. An ETTL flash unit will invariably see itself as a fill flash and shut down as soon as it thinks the image's highlights are properly exposed. That effect is largely drowned out if you're using bounce flash, but a ring flash doesn't give you that option.

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

Waddizzle — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 04:42:45 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
@Chris_N wrote:
Thank you for your reply. Good point. I did all my tests with the camera in manual mode. Generally 1/200 sec, F8, iso 100 using my 60mm macro lens. But I still get the problem of 3-4 stops of underexposure.

Kind regards
Chris.
I think Ray's point was that the flash has to be in manual mode. An ETTL flash unit will invariably see itself as a fill flash and shut down as soon as it thinks the image's highlights are properly exposed. That effect is largely drowned out if you're using bounce flash, but a ring flash doesn't give you that option.

I do not use flash much, but I thought it was the other way around. Use M mode for fill flash. Use Av mode when the flash/strobes will be the primary light sources.

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

Chris_N — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 09:54:21 GMT

Thank you all for your comments. I understand Ray's point more clearly now. If the flash is in manual mode, it works fine. But then getting the right exposure is still a matter or trial and error. The problem is that the flash will not work properly in ETTL mode which I prefer to use. That is the main problem I wish to solve. It will give good exposures on my 550D and 760D but underexposes 3-4 stops on my 90D. In the 90D's external flash settings exposure mode there are 3 options. ETTL face priority, ETTL and average. I have tried all 3 and they all produce about 3-4 stops of underexposure.

I generally use the camera in manual mode at 1/200 sec with apertures of F8-F22. Most close ups are in the shade. So my main exposure will still be from the flash even if the camera is set to Manual mode with the flash in ETTL mode.

I did try setting the camera menu to TTL (instead of ETTL) to see if that will make a difference but with the flash attached and switched on it will not give me that option.

I rather suspect that there may me no solution to this problem and I will have to live with it*. It's unlikely that Canon will make a firmware revision to address a problem with a non Canon product.The Yongnuo flash firmware cannot be updated by the end user.

In the meantime, I will just have to dial in 3 stops of extra exposure compensation on the flash or the camera settings. If I need 4 stops then I will need to change from iso 100 to iso 200.

Any further thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated.

Kind regards

Chris

* I saw a note on B&H photo that this flash is not compatible with the Canon 5D Mk IV. I suppose the 90D should be added to the list.

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

Ray-uk — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 11:16:15 GMT

Lot's of confusion going on here.

I meant the camera in manual mode with the flash set to ETTL.

In all camera exposure modes except manual the ambient lighting will be taken into account and give a fill in effect.

In camera manual exposure mode you have set the shutter speed and aperture and the camera then adjusts the power output of the flash according to the light read from the preflash and totally ignoring the ambient light.

I think your problem is more a case of compatibility. FWIW I have a similar ringflash (K&F Concept KF-150) which I occasionally use with my 7D2 and this suffers with a similar problem, I just dial in -2 EV and it gets it right every time.

The annoying thing is if I set the flash compensation on the camera it shows on the camera but not the flash and doesn't adjust the exposure but if I set it on the flash then it shows on both the flash and the camera and then gets the exposure correct.

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

Chris_N — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 12:49:55 GMT

Thanks Ray for your further comments. With my setup, if I set the camera Flash exposure compensation (+3) it actually works. Using the Camera exposure compensation disables it on the flash which makes sense. But its a lot simpler just to dial it in with the flash. If I change the camera aperture the ETTL adjusts accordingly. But if I change the iso, ETTL does not compensate.

Kind regards

Chris

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

RobertTheFat — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 16:31:17 GMT

@Chris_N wrote:
Thank you all for your comments. I understand Ray's point more clearly now. If the flash is in manual mode, it works fine. But then getting the right exposure is still a matter or trial and error. The problem is that the flash will not work properly in ETTL mode which I prefer to use. That is the main problem I wish to solve. It will give good exposures on my 550D and 760D but underexposes 3-4 stops on my 90D. In the 90D's external flash settings exposure mode there are 3 options. ETTL face priority, ETTL and average. I have tried all 3 and they all produce about 3-4 stops of underexposure.

I generally use the camera in manual mode at 1/200 sec with apertures of F8-F22. Most close ups are in the shade. So my main exposure will still be from the flash even if the camera is set to Manual mode with the flash in ETTL mode.

I did try setting the camera menu to TTL (instead of ETTL) to see if that will make a difference but with the flash attached and switched on it will not give me that option.

I rather suspect that there may me no solution to this problem and I will have to live with it*. It's unlikely that Canon will make a firmware revision to address a problem with a non Canon product.The Yongnuo flash firmware cannot be updated by the end user.

In the meantime, I will just have to dial in 3 stops of extra exposure compensation on the flash or the camera settings. If I need 4 stops then I will need to change from iso 100 to iso 200.

Any further thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated.

Kind regards
Chris

* I saw a note on B&H photo that this flash is not compatible with the Canon 5D Mk IV. I suppose the 90D should be added to the list.

The way that ETTL works (and I don't think Canon explains it very well) is to assume that "all flash is fill flash". If you don't believe it, try using an ETTL flash outdoors on a dark night. Absolutely nothing will be lit except the brightest highlight of the nearest object. That feature (or misfeature, depending on your point of view) works very nicely if you actually want fill flash. And indeed most serious photographers find fill flash useful. And if you're indoors, you're likely to be using bounce flash, whose lack of directionality greatly mitigates the effect.

But in cases where you do want the flash to illuminate the scene, setting it to manual may not be your only option. At least some Canon flashes have a mode where you can let the flash decide how much light you need (like we used to do back in the film days). Whether your 3rd-party ring flash has that capability, I wouldn't know.

It is never correct to set the flash to TTL mode if you're using it with an ETTL camera. The usual effect of doing so is that the flash fires at full power, resulting in massive overexposure. But it sounds as though either your camera or your flash is smart enough not to let you try that.

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

mikemathmiller — Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:40:20 GMT

I had the same problem. I got 5 stops of underexposure when using external flash. I changed my metering to average and I changed flash control in the camera's menu to average (not evaluative) and the problem went away. Perhaps setting metering to average and flash control to evaluative created a conflict. Try different combinations of average and evaluative for camera metering and flash control metering and see what works for you.

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

Chris_N — Wed, 30 Nov 2022 19:27:17 GMT

Mike, thank you very much for the suggestion of putting the available light metering to average and the flash metering to average. I will check it out.

Otherwise, my other work around is to dial in 2 or 3 stops of extra Flash exposure while keeping iso to 100. (Somehow increasing iso increases exposure compensation, in any case for close ups, iso 100 is usually all you need)

Kind regards

Chris

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

mikemathmiller — Thu, 08 Dec 2022 20:25:56 GMT

I spoke too soon. The problem is back. It comes and goes. The flash firmware can be updated but I have the most current version installed. It is v1.36 dated 12-13-2018. Let me know if you figure it out.

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

Chris_N — Thu, 08 Dec 2022 20:45:37 GMT

Thanks for letting us know Mike. I did find that if I dialled in 2 or 3 stops of extra flash exposure compensation and left the iso at 100 then the flash will correctly expose at varying distances and lens aperture. I usually have the camera set on manual speed and aperture for close ups and use the flash as the main exposure.

Something to check is if the flash hot shoe is making good contact. With other Canon flashes, whenever the flash gives a wild exposure I remove the flash and reseat it on the hot shoe. That usually solves the problem. However in the case of the Yongnuo YN14EX, there is definitely a compatibility issue with the Canon 90D. My previous Canon 760D works fine with this flash.

In this case

I can't see any way to update the flash firmware on this model. If you find a way, please let us know.

Kind regards

Chris

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

mikemathmiller — Sat, 10 Dec 2022 00:33:58 GMT

Good news. I was able to update my flash's firmware and the problem went away. Look for firmware updates at www.hkyongnuo.com. Here are the instructions on how to perform the update.

1. Download, unzip, and install the software updater program and the firmware update.

2. With the flash off, connect it to your computer with a USB cable (probably either a mini-B or micro-B connector).

3. While holding down the MODE button, turn on the flash. When the software recognizes the flash you will see the flash name on the flash LCD panel.

4. Click the browse button and select the firmware to use.

5. Click Upgrade. Once the firmware is installed, the speedlite will restart automatically.

6. Disconnect the speedlite from the USB cable.

Good luck, Mike

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

Chris_N — Sat, 10 Dec 2022 10:27:49 GMT

Thank you Mike. Do you have a direct link to the firmware update? I could not find it anywhere.

Also, I can't see any way to connect the flash to a usb cable. There is only a 3 pin charging port and a circular flash firing port.

Are you using the YN14EX II or the earlier Mark 1? I have the Mark 1. I suspect only the Mark 2 can get a firmware upgrade and has the extra usb port.

So I guess I will have to use a work around by dialling in exposure compensation or get a new flash.

Thank you for all your help and support.

Kind regards

Chris

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

mikemathmiller — Sat, 10 Dec 2022 16:55:08 GMT

I have the Yongnuo YN600EX-RT II and thought there would be the same process to update your firmware as mine. I looked online at some photos but couldn't see a USB port. There is a possible cover near the flash hot shoe on some models. Turn your flash upside down and look for it. The firmware should be in the vicinity of this link, but I couldn't find yours.

The company is pretty good about answering questions via email. Try emailing a question to service@hkyongnuo.com. Keep your questions simple and brief because they are not native speakers of English.

[Commercial link removed per forum guidelines and replaced with the page's firmware link.]

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

Chris_N — Sat, 10 Dec 2022 17:16:55 GMT

Thanks again Mike for your help. The e mail and links are very useful. I checked and there is no data port anywhere on this flash. I did find a YouTube video with a hack about using the Yongnuo (YN622N-TX) transmitter to connect a flash to a PC wirelessly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r46LEAuP9og . However, as the YN14EX is an older flash, I don't believe there is a firmware update available. I will double check with Yongnuo support.

Kind regards

Chris

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

mikemathmiller — Sat, 10 Dec 2022 18:54:01 GMT

Instead of using ETTL with flash exposure compensation I think you would be happier using the flash in manual mode. Take a shot and then adjust the manual output as needed. Shooting in RAW will also give you more exposure latitude.

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

Chris_N — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 12:17:46 GMT

Thanks for the suggestion Mike. Shooting Manual and RAW will have some advantages.

However, If I dial in say +3EV flash exposure compensation and leave the iso at 100, the exposure stays consistent at different apertures and distances. So its like the ETTL is working, but consistently underexposes 3EV without compensation. Strange...

Kind regards

Chris

Update: I received a kind and polite reply from Yongnuo support today. They confirmed that there is no firmware update available for the Yongnuo 14EX ring flash. They did say that the 2022 version of the Yongnuo 14EX Mark II should be compatible with the Canon 90D.

Re: Yongnuo YN14EX Ring Flash Will Not Work Properly on Canon 90D

skyman — Tue, 09 Jan 2024 06:50:06 GMT

I have the same problem. I built a portable5 point studio that cosists of a yn-e3-rtII trigger, and a mixture of yn600ex-rt's, yn600ex-rt ii's, and yn968ex-rt flashes. On my older bodies is works fine, but on my 90d I cannot use E-TTL in any combination. Mostly it is under exposed but sometimes it is horribly over. this basically means I can't shoot fill flash. The weird thing is it appeared to work normally until the first time I shot E-ttl in aperture priority mode. I have tried the firmware update route but that hasn't worked - and they are a paint to update. I will try a canon branded trigger to see if that can help, but it means that I am without a flash that can do E-ttl which is critical for events where I might want to bounce. I suspect the cause is canon uses a flash meetering system from the R series cameras on the 90d and the yongnuo doesn't correctly interpret the results.