topic Re: Speedlite in Speedlite Flashes

Speedlite 580EX II EOS R8 Compatibility

RichardinIdaho — Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:19:45 GMT

I have a Speedlite 580EXII and am planing on ordering a new Canon R8 camera. Will my flash work with the new camera or do I need to replace it with a newer model?

Thanks

Re: Speedlite

rs-eos — Sat, 11 Feb 2023 19:39:13 GMT

The 580 EX II appears to not be compatible since it doesn't have ETTL II.

The specs for the EOS R8 mention this about the hot shoe:

"21-pin multi-function shoe equipped with the traditional 5-pin contact (X-sync, communication contact)"

And for compatible flashes, it mentions:

"E-TTL II with EX / EL series Speedlite, wireless multi-flash support"

So you'll want to pick up an older EX Speedlite with E-TTL II or any of the EL series speedlites.

Re: Speedlite

deebatman316 — Sat, 11 Feb 2023 20:47:54 GMT

Actually this is NOT CORRECT. Canon introduced E-TTL II in 2004 with the EOS 1D Mark II. The 580EX II was released in 2008. So this speedlite already supports it. Also E-TTL II is implemented in the camera body not the speedlite. So the speedlite is already compatible. Along with ALL of Canon's EX or EL speedlites. Also Canon's documentation of the 580EX II also states the speedlite supports E-TTL II. The speedlite is also FULLY compatible with the external speedlite control menu. The IR AF Assist Beam IS NOT COMPATIBLE with ANY mirrorless camera. The speedlite will fire an Intermittent AF Assist Beam/ (Intermittent Flashes) instead. The AD-E1 adapter is required for the 580EX II because the speedlite has weather sealing other speedlites WITHOUT weather sealing don't require it.

-Demetrius

Current Gear: EOS 5D Mark IV, EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III USM, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II USM, EF 50 F/1.8 STM, EF 85mm F/1.8 USM, EF 70-200mm F/2.8L IS III USM, 470EX-AI & 600EX II-RT

Retired Gear: EOS 40D & Sigma 17-50mm F/2.8 EX DC OS HSM

Re: Speedlite 580EX II EOS R8 Compatibility

PeterSarmiento — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 06:42:16 GMT

My 580EXii fully operates with no issues on my R6ii.

R6ii has the same multifunction shoe as R8.

The only thing is no weather sealing.

I bought the adapter Incase I need weather sealing.

Then ended up getting EL5 for R6ii.

580EXii will remain in 5Dii.

Re: Speedlite

Always-Learning — Sun, 17 Nov 2024 21:33:10 GMT

I’ve been searching all over for this info on preflash - thanks! Do you have any idea why the red beam won’t work (in my case on an r5)?

Re: Speedlite 580EX II EOS R8 Compatibility

Always-Learning — Sun, 17 Nov 2024 21:33:39 GMT

Interesting. I have an r5 and it works perfectly except that i get the intermittent flash instead of the red af assist. You get the af assist beam on your r6ii? Was there a config setting you needed?

Re: Speedlite

deebatman316 — Sun, 17 Nov 2024 21:41:38 GMT

If you're talking about the old school red AF Assist Beam on the speedlite the camera can't detect the red grid pattern. Also mirrorless cameras in general cannot detect the color red very well. This also applies to DSLR cameras in live view mode. The red grid pattern is aligned with the AF sensors in a DSLR. A mirrorless camera handles AF on the image sensor itself. There aren't separate dedicated AF sensors for each AF point.

Re: Speedlite 580EX II EOS R8 Compatibility

p4pictures — Mon, 18 Nov 2024 09:36:49 GMT

Mirrorless cameras don't use the red AF assist beam even if the flash has it, they use the intermittent flash to focus. There is no configuration on a mirrorless camera that allows the red AF assist beam to operate.

Re: Speedlite

Always-Learning — Mon, 18 Nov 2024 19:20:41 GMT

That’s really interesting - and odd that mirrorless are worse with red than 20-year-old cameras! I assume it’s not about mirrorless per se or even sensor position - but maybe a compromise allowing the vastly improved EV/ISO? Must affect even normal focus on red things and maybe red acquisition too. But if I’m right about the reason, seems a price worth paying. As my tag says, “always learning!”

Re: Speedlite

kvbarkley — Mon, 18 Nov 2024 19:56:02 GMT

The focus sensor on "20 year old cameras" was separate from the main imaging sensor. As such, sensitivity to infrared was a feature not a bug.

On a mirrorless, the focus sensors are on the chip, and to prevent strong infrared sources from causing color shifts, infrared is filtered out.

Re: Speedlite

deebatman316 — Mon, 18 Nov 2024 20:36:18 GMT

An AF SLR or DSLR have dedicated AF sensors on the floor of the camera under the mirror. In a mirrorless camera that system isn't there anymore. Instead AF is handled directly on the image sensor itself. Also the manuals for older speedlites refer to the red AF Assist Beam as IR (Infrared). But its not Infrared if it really was Infrared we couldn't see the AF Assist Beam. The camera relies on contrast and distinct lines for the camera to focus on. That's why the AF Assist Beam on older speedlites have distinct lines. Also a downside to the old school IR AF Assist Beam was when new AF systems came out with more AF points. Was that the grid pattern couldn't cover the new AF point layout. So if you chose an AF point not covered by the AF Assist Beam. The AF Assist Beam would NOT be projected at all. So in 2003 Canon dropped the dedicated body AF Assist lamps and started using Intermittent Flash Firing (*Disco Flash* as my collogue @kvbarkley calls it) from the built in flash. So this wouldn't be a problem anymore with the different AF point arrays. In 2009 Canon released the original speedlite 270EX it was the first speedlite in the EX range to lack an IR AF Assist Beam. Instead Canon chose to use Intermittent Flash Firing for the AF Assist Beam. The Intermittent Flash Firing AF Assist is COMPLETELY INCOMPATIBLE with ALL EOS AF SLRs. It is also COMPLETELY INCOMPATIBLE with EOS Digital SLRs released prior to 2007. In 2008 Canon added the External Speedlite Control to new cameras. The first speedlites to support this were the 270EX (original), 430EX II & 580EX II. Cameras released from 2007 onward have additional hardware to support Intermittent Flash Firing and an LED AF Assist Beam (320EX). All of Canon's speedlites have always supported Intermittent Flash Firing but the camera bodies lacked the necessary hardware to support it. The camera body rapidly varies the voltage going to the speedlite to control the brightness of the AF Assist pre-fire/ pre-flash. Newer speedlites they can adjust the IR AF Assist Beam they emit. To match the amount of AF points the camera has. The 430EX III-RT is only able to emit an IR AF Assist Beam to cover the center AF Point. By default the speedlite uses Intermittent Flash Firing to overcome this limitation. While the 600EX II-RT can cover 65 AF points. To cover older AF points it has different AF Assist Beam projectors to match the AF point arrays of older cameras. The speedlite's IR AF Assist Beam is linked to the camera's AF system to know which projectors to turn on. Below are some example pictures of limitations that the IR AF Assist Beam may suffer from on different cameras. Intermittent Flash Firing doesn't have the AF point restriction that IR has. This is due to Intermittent Flash Firing covering the entire frame and isn't linked to a specific AF point. Since the entire area will be illuminated when the AF Assist Beam is emitted by the flash.

IR/ Red Grid AF Assist BeamLimitations of the IR AF Assist Beam

Re: Speedlite

deebatman316 — Mon, 18 Nov 2024 20:45:12 GMT

Well the AF Assist Beam from the speedlite isn't actually IR. If it really was we couldn't see it then. But since we can see it is visible red light from the flash. Some old EZ series A-TTL speedlites used an IR pre-flash for the metering and it IS NOT VISIBLE at all. A-TTL speedlites fired the pre-flash with a half press of the shutter button and a sensor on the flash measured the pre-flash. Then set flash exposure accordingly and set the camera aperture. Note some EZ series speedlites fired a visible white pre-flash from the main flash tube when the speedlite was in the bounce position.

IR AF Assist Beam

Re: Speedlite 580EX II EOS R8 Compatibility

kvbarkley — Tue, 19 Nov 2024 18:27:30 GMT

I am not exactly sure which ones - probably lower end - but some cameras like the R50 have only the new multi function pins, not the legacy 4 pins + MF pins like on the R8 and R6ii.

Re: Speedlite 580EX II EOS R8 Compatibility

deebatman316 — Tue, 19 Nov 2024 18:48:29 GMT

The R100, R6 Classic, R5 Classic, R (original) & RP. Have the old 5 pin hot shoe. The R50 on supports the multi function hot shoe it lacks the older 5 pins for legacy speedlite. Canon first released the 5 pin hot shoe in 1986 with the T90. The pins have remained the same but the flash metering systems changed. First was TTL then in 1986 Canon released A-TTL. In 1995 Canon released E-TTL which is the current flash metering system. In 2004 E-TTL was revised with E-TTL II. But the core E-TTL communication never changed.

Re: Speedlite 580EX II EOS R8 Compatibility

kvbarkley — Tue, 19 Nov 2024 19:20:34 GMT

But newer cameras like the R6 mk II have *both* the pins for the MFA hot shoe and the traditional 5 pin connection for legacy flashes.

Re: Speedlite 580EX II EOS R8 Compatibility

deebatman316 — Tue, 19 Nov 2024 20:32:37 GMT

Yes they do. Most of the EOS R series cameras have been updated to the new shoe. The only cameras without it are the R100 & RP. The R50 doesn’t have the hybrid hot shoe like other cameras do.