topic Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II. in Speedlite Flashes

I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

BryanShaw1 — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 18:03:00 GMT

I have followed the set up instructions on the camera, with the middle icon set in the wireless func. setting.

The test flash is OK with a pre-flash from the camera, and a successful firing of the speedlite.

However, when taking a picture, the 7D internal flash fires at the same time as the speedlite.

Can you help please?

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

jrhoffman75 — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 14:24:07 GMT

I believe the 7D uses OPTICAL wireless flash. It gets the wireless signal from the built-in flash.

You can configure the 7D so the on-camera flash is very low power so that it doesn't affect exposure but still sends signal.

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/blogs/2013/20131217_chan_incameraflash_blog.shtml

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

RobertTheFat — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 14:47:17 GMT

@jrhoffman75 wrote:
I believe the 7D uses OPTICAL wireless flash. It gets the wireless signal from the built-in flash.

You can configure the 7D so the on-camera flash is very low power so that it doesn't affect exposure but still sends signal.

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/blogs/2013/20131217_chan_incameraflash_blog.shtml

Correct. The 7D has no RF capability.

I don't think the 430EX II does either. You need the newer "RT" model.

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

BryanShaw1 — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 17:18:42 GMT

John,

Thanks for your reply, and please see above the extract from the web page you kindly forwarded.

I have set the 7D to the middle setting "Only the external speedlite will affect exposure, the pop up flash will only fire a pre flash". So I think what I want it to do is achievable somehow.

Grateful for any further thoughts.

Regards,

Bryan.

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

jrhoffman75 — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 17:30:33 GMT

That's exactly what you want Bryan. Remember too that the two flashes need to be looking at each other, as shown in camera manual. Something I have not tried, but thought of, if you had a mirror set so that on camera flash beam bounced off it and onto the off camera flash you might be able to have both flashes facing same direction.

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

RobertTheFat — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 19:57:01 GMT

@jrhoffman75 wrote:
That's exactly what you want Bryan. Remember too that the two flashes need to be looking at each other, as shown in camera manual. Something I have not tried, but thought of, if you had a mirror set so that on camera flash beam bounced off it and onto the off camera flash you might be able to have both flashes facing same direction.

He probably can anyway. All of my Canon flashes (a 580EX, a 580EX II, and a 600EX RT) can be swiveled 180 degrees, so that the receiver points in the opposite direction, i.e. back toward the camera. If the OP's 430EX II works the same way, he shouldn't need the mirror.

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

jrhoffman75 — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 20:51:10 GMT

Good point. I rarely use flash so I don't know about the swivel.

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

BryanShaw1 — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 22:04:59 GMT

Yes, the 430 EX II does swivel.

However, if you go to the built-in flash function menu shown above, the bottom of the screen shows the 'test flash firing' button.

As I said previously, this works perfectly - firing a pre-flash before the speedlite. But when taking a photo, both internal and speedlite fire together. Why the difference?

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

RobertTheFat — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 23:38:27 GMT

@BryanShaw1 wrote:
Yes, the 430 EX II does swivel.

However, if you go to the built-in flash function menu shown above, the bottom of the screen shows the 'test flash firing' button.
As I said previously, this works perfectly - firing a pre-flash before the speedlite. But when taking a photo, both internal and speedlite fire together. Why the difference?

Forget about the test flash; that's probably there just so you can prove to yourself that the flash works.

The actual pre-flash doesn't fire together with the speedlite; if fires slightly ahead (at greatly reduced power unless you tell it otherwise), to tell the speedlite that it's time to fire. But the time difference between the flashes is too short for your eye/brain system to resolve. Note that you wouldn't want it to be otherwise: if the pre-flash were discretely discernible, you'd run the risk that your subject would blink before the main flash could fire.

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

BryanShaw1 — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 15:44:51 GMT

Further to previous correspondenses, please see attached guide from Canon which clearly states that "The built-in speedlite can either contribute to the flash exposure or trigger the slaves without contributing to the flash exposure."

I've followed all the instructions but cannot stop the built-in flash from 'contributing'.

I've seen other Canon websites stating the same thing so there must be a way.

Can anyone help?

Thanks

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

jrhoffman75 — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 16:18:44 GMT

"contributing" means the on-cmaera flash will also fire at power and provide additional light if the 430 isn't powerful enough versus just firing a low power trigger flash.

Are you getting overexposed flash because the on-camera is adding its light to the 430?

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

BryanShaw1 — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 17:29:28 GMT

John,

Totally over exposed - the internal is firing at full strength.

I just need to find a way of turning off the internal - which all the Canon literature says is possible.

As you can see in the Canon guide I enclosed earlier - the first two options state '......with or without the built in flash firing'.

Later on in the guide (not forwarded to you) the middle option on the 7D's wireless function screen (the single speedlite icon),

the text says 'Trigger off-camera speedlites only' and goes on to say 'choose this option if you want the built-in flash to trigger off-camera speedlites without the built-in flash contributing to the exposure'

It is so frustrating knowing the option is available but not being able to find out how!

Regards,

Bryan.

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

jrhoffman75 — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 20:24:50 GMT

Hi Bryan - Since you are experiencing overexposure I am thinking perhaps there's a setting off on the 430; I would think if it was set for TTL it should control its output and if it is getting light from the camera it should reduce its output. It doesn't know where the light is coming from, only the intensity.

I tried this with my T5i, which has the same function.

1. With the 430EXIII off I set the camera to the icon that only has external flash and took a photo. It was underexposed on the T5i. With normal flash use exposure was OK, meaning that flash power has been reduced.

2. Then I took a photo with with 430EXIII turned on and it was properly exposed as well.

Setting on 430EXIII was ETTL (lightning bolt) SLAVE in the top of the window.

Try Step 1 with your camera and see what happends.

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

RobertTheFat — Sat, 27 Feb 2016 06:10:35 GMT

@BryanShaw1 wrote:
John,
Totally over exposed - the internal is firing at full strength.
I just need to find a way of turning off the internal - which all the Canon literature says is possible.

As you can see in the Canon guide I enclosed earlier - the first two options state '......with or without the built in flash firing'.

Later on in the guide (not forwarded to you) the middle option on the 7D's wireless function screen (the single speedlite icon),
the text says 'Trigger off-camera speedlites only' and goes on to say 'choose this option if you want the built-in flash to trigger off-camera speedlites without the built-in flash contributing to the exposure'

It is so frustrating knowing the option is available but not being able to find out how!

Regards,
Bryan.

Are you sure it's the internal, and not the external, that's firing at full strength? The 7D is an ETTL camera and is not compatible with TTL. If your external flash is set to TTL, it will fire at full strength. It will obey signals from the camera only if it's set to ETTL.

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

TCampbell — Fri, 04 Mar 2016 15:40:11 GMT

If you set the on-camera flash to "disable" but it is acting as an E-TTL master, you will still see the flash fire, but it will fire just fractionally BEFORE the shutter opens. It will not contribute light to the shot.

This can be very confusing because you will actually see the flash fire and think that it's not really disabled. If the menu says it's disabled... then it's not really firing when the shutter is open... it's firing just prior to the shutter open and it's telling the off-camera flash when to fire and how much power to use.

The off-camera flash waits a fraction of a second while the camera opens the shutter and THEN fires the strobe.

But this all happens so quickly that you'd think the flashes fired just once and at all at the same time (they didn't).

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

RobertTheFat — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 14:10:13 GMT

@TCampbell wrote:
If you set the on-camera flash to "disable" but it is acting as an E-TTL master, you will still see the flash fire, but it will fire just fractionally BEFORE the shutter opens. It will not contribute light to the shot.

This can be very confusing because you will actually see the flash fire and think that it's not really disabled. If the menu says it's disabled... then it's not really firing when the shutter is open... it's firing just prior to the shutter open and it's telling the off-camera flash when to fire and how much power to use.

The off-camera flash waits a fraction of a second while the camera opens the shutter and THEN fires the strobe.

But this all happens so quickly that you'd think the flashes fired just once and at all at the same time (they didn't).

But that scenario doesn't fit the reported facts. The OP tells us that the pictures are badly overexposed. The pre-flash wouldn't cause that.

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

kvbarkley — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 14:19:22 GMT

Except that Canon has some weasel words that the pre-flash may indeed contribute to the exposure in some conditions.

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 14:22:18 GMT

ETTL measures light hitting sensor, so it shouldn't care where the light is coming from.

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

BryanShaw1 — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 19:13:09 GMT

Many thanks for all the posts, however, has anyone actually tried to replicate the problem to give a definitive answer if it is possible to fire the 430EX without effecting exposure from the internal flash?

Re: I cannot stop my 7D internal flash firing when set up for wireless with 430 EX II.

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 19:20:33 GMT

Yes. See my Message 13 above.