topic canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens in Speedlite Flashes

canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Kimgragert — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 19:44:31 GMT

I have camera set in ISO @3200, dial at highest +2, set in TV mode in white fluorescent light, need to go higher with shutter in TV mode to get action shots, and in a gymnasium basketball and in a sports dome lacrosse pix come out way to dark, if I go lower shutter speed pix are blurry! I need more light. Is there any way to get more light with equipment I have?????? Ive heard to put camera in ISO H1 but don't know how or if this would solve the problem!! Thank u

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Skirball — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:55:17 GMT

THere are a couple of threads in the past couple of days that discuss this same topic, I'd recommend searching for action night photography.

In summary, what you're trying to do is a very technology dependent type of photography, and it's why sports photogs spend 10s of thousands of dollars on gear. If you're already at your max ISO, and you can't use a slower shutter speed, and can't use flash, then there isn't any more you can do - with the equipment you have. However, a couple things to note:

You said that you set it at +2? Is that exposure compensation? If that's the case, you can get two free stops of light right there, because you're trying to over expose two stops, which means the shutter is staying open 4 times as long as it needs to. Dial it back down to 0. If you actually meant -2, and the photos are darker than you want, then there's not much you can do.

Don't bother using ISO H1, if there even is one on your camera. It doesn't do anything you couldn't do yourself in post, yet have control over it. Are you shooting RAW? If not, I recommend shooting RAW. This will allow you to boost the exposure slightly in post. At that high ISO you're not going to get much from it, but it's better than nothing. You can even expose slightly under (as mentioned above) to raise your shutter speeds and then raise the exposure in post, but this will increase the amount of noise.

As far as equipment fixes: The cheapest is probably to get a faster lens (one with a wider max aperture). But good long lenses are very expensive. The 200mm 2.8 would get you 2 stops more light, but you'd lose some reach. It's also a $700 lens, but you can probably find used ones for cheaper.

The other choice is a better camera. But to really make a sizable leap via this route you'd want to get a full frame, and then you'd need new lenses for it, so we're talking a lot of cash. Upgrading a little, to something like a 70D would give you higher ISO options, but only makes for a small increase in high ISO performance. So the results can be noisy if you max out ISO... but it doesn't seem to be bothering you on the 50D.

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

RobertTheFat — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:05:41 GMT

@Kimgragert wrote:
@I have camera set in ISO @3200, dial at highest +2, set in TV mode in white fluorescent light, need to go higher with shutter in TV mode to get action shots, and in a gymnasium basketball and in a sports dome lacrosse pix come out way to dark, if I go lower shutter speed pix are blurry! I need more light. Is there any way to get more light with equipment I have?????? Ive heard to put camera in ISO H1 but don't know how or if this would solve the problem!! Thank u

I think the highest I ever took my 50D was ISO 1600. I sure wouldn't go over 3200, even if I'd read the manual and knew how.

You posted in the Speedlight forum, but didn't mention one. I've used a 580EX at full power to light a fairly large room successfully, but a full-sized basketball arena is certainly a challenge, especially with a lens limited to f/5.6 (or is it f/6.3?) at the long end. With a speedlight the shutter speed is irrelevant, as long as you stay within the sync range (up to 1/250 on a 50D). So set the speed as low as you'd dare if you were relying entirely on the room lights. Then push it in post until the noise level is just short of unacceptable. Either it's bright enough or you need better equipment.

White fluorescent is a fairly bad light source, BTW, because you have to cut some of the frequencies down so much to get it in balance. Incandescent light, even though it may start out dimmer, can actually be better. But of course that matters only if you can choose the arenas you shoot in.

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Kimgragert — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 23:18:33 GMT

Oops, I posted in wrong forum!! Thanku for the info! The ISO i do is 3200, shutter at 320 and +2. Photos are a bit blurry and could use more light. Would u know what type of lens would be good to provide good light

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Kimgragert — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 23:28:26 GMT

Thank u for for the info! Skirball is the 200mm 2.8 is a good lens to consider for sport events. Which would be giving me more light???

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Kimgragert — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 23:29:03 GMT

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Skirball — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 00:16:43 GMT

@Kimgragert wrote:
Oops, I posted in wrong forum!! Thanku for the info! The ISO i do is 3200, shutter at 320 and +2. Photos are a bit blurry and could use more light. Would u know what type of lens would be good to provide good light

This doesn't make sense, if I interpret it correctly. By 'could use more light' do you mean that the photo is underexposed? At +2 EC it should be overexposed. By moving it down to 0 you could move the shutter to 1/1250 and certainly freeze action. I would look into this, because either you have it backwards (your camera is set at -2 EC, in which case they're probably very dark) or you have two "free" stops of light to work with.

What is blurry at 1/320? Just the moving subject, or the entire photo? If the entire photo then I would work on technique, check that your lens IS is on, and consider a tripod or monopod. Can you post a photo? It's possible to get camera shake at 1/320 and 250mm, but it should be avoidable.

Any lens with a larger aperture (smaller f-number) than your current lens will allow more light. At full zoom your current lens has a maximum aperture of 5.6, which is fairly small. An f/4 lens would give you one more stop of light, a f/2.8 two more stops. You're not going to find a zoom lens with smaller than 2.8 and even primes at that focal length are few and expensive.

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Skirball — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 00:22:03 GMT

@Kimgragert wrote:
Thank u for for the info! Skirball is the 200mm 2.8 is a good lens to consider for sport events. Which would be giving me more light???

The 200 mm f/2.8 is a good lens. It can work fine for sports, but it's probably not the top choice. However, it's half the cost or less of 'top choices". With the exception of not reaching as far as your currently lens, and not being able to zoom, it would provide four times the amount of light and offer a much sharper image. There are some drawbacks though:

The 200mm doesn't zoom. You get 1 focal length. Most the time with sports you're zooming in as far as you can go anyway, so it's not an issue. But the flexibility of a zoom is nice, especially if you're down on the field/floor.

The 200 mm also doesn't have image stabilization, which helps prevent camera shake. That said, for sports you're usually at fast enough speeds to freeze moving subjects, so camera shake isn't a problem.

The 70-200 2.8 is the lens of choice for sports, but those start at $1500 (though it's an old version so you can get it a bit cheaper).

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Kimgragert — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:42:50 GMT

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Kimgragert — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:44:02 GMT

this is a photo i took in TV mode at 400 shutter, iso 3200 and +2 exposure...with equipement mentioned

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Kimgragert — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:48:06 GMT

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Kimgragert — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:49:10 GMT

also took this hummingbird pic, any advice on how to improve??? 🙂

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Skirball — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:58:08 GMT

Very helpful, thanks. Let's take this in order of easiest, and cheapest:

So, first off, yes it's underexposed, but not significantly. Certainly not two steps. You do have the exposure compensation set to +2 eV, however, you've already maxed out your setting (the shutter speed is locked, and the aperture can't open anymore), so the camera simply takes what it can get. In other words, the exposure compensation is doing nothing for you. I would move it back down to zero, so in the event that you actually have enough light you don't over expose.

Are you shooting in RAW? If not, do it, and learn how to develop RAW. You can pull up some of those shadows. It will introduce some noise, and you'll be limited at how much you can pull up because of the high ISO, but it's better than nothing, and it's free.

Lenses: Yes, a better lens will help. However, you shot this at only 84mm, which means a couple of things: first, the 200mm prime that I recommended would not be a good choice for you, as you would not have gotten this composition. Second, your lens was only at f/4.5 at this focal length, so a 2.8 lens would only be a 1.3 stop improvement, not 2. And an f/4 lens would only be a third of a stop. So you wouldn't gain as much as I previously stated. A 70-200 2.8 lens would be awesome, but it's expensive. A 85 or 100mm prime would get you more light and not cost much, but you lose the ability to zoom in and out.

The good news is that you're close. The photo isn't terribly underexposed, although you could really use a bump up in shutter speed to freeze the action (or go down a step an accentuate it). But you're within a stop or two of making it work (though you wouldn't have wiggle room). A lens would buy you a stop, but it's not cheap. A more modern camera would also allow you to bump up your ISO more, but that costs too and will add more noise.

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Kimgragert — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:10:45 GMT

Thanks for all the info really appreciate it. I take photos as a hobby and want learn right way to get best shots!! I had set in DL not raw. I want to go higher with shutter to freeze shot but then to dark and I max out to +2 and still to dark. When outside in daylight I can get great shots just a struggle inside!! I guess I really need to get the 70-200 lens, I'll have to see if I can find one that is used. There is so much to learn Ughhh lol

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Skirball — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:11:18 GMT

The hummingbird didn't have any exif data so I can't look at the settings, but that's an entirely different situation than the sports. You need a very fast shutter speed if you want to completely freeze those wings, although it can look really nice to freeze the body and let the wings blur.

Here you have two options. Use a lot of sunlight (use a couple reflectors if need be) and crank up that shutter speed. Or, you shoot it in the shade and use flash - but that's much more advanced. Flash is very fast, so it freezes action, but you have to use slow shutter speeds and you need to eliminate ambient light.

I would get a cheap reflector or two off Amazon, set them up to blast some light on the feeder, and sit and wait (this is a great time to tether your camera, set it up on a tripod, and enjoy a beverage in a comfy chair and wait for them to come by.

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Skirball — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:21:10 GMT

@Kimgragert wrote:
Thanks for all the info really appreciate it. I take photos as a hobby and want learn right way to get best shots!! I had set in DL not raw. I want to go higher with shutter to freeze shot but then to dark and I max out to +2 and still to dark. When outside in daylight I can get great shots just a struggle inside!! I guess I really need to get the 70-200 lens, I'll have to see if I can find one that is used. There is so much to learn Ughhh lol

Unfortunately indoor action is difficult and technology dependent. You can do more with the equipment you have, but only so much. At some point better equipment will be needed if you want to up the quality of your shots. Welcome to Pandora's Box.

Re-read at what I wrote above considering the +2 exposure compensation, it's an important concept to grasp. It isn't doing anything here. In Tv mode the camera adjusts the aperture to set the exposure, while the shutter speed and ISO stay the same. You use exposure compensation to tell the camera that you want to over or underexpose. However, you've maxed it out - the aperture is already as wide as it goes. So telling the camera to expose more won't do anything. Bring it back down to zero so you don't accidently miss a shot.

Learn how to shoot in RAW. There's plenty of information online about it. You can use Canon's Digital Photo Professional (came with your camera) to "develop" the RAW into a jpg. RAW files have additional information that your camera throws out when you shoot in JPG. This includes some amount of flexibility on exposure. This flexibility decreases as ISO goes up, but still, it's better than JPG. You can also clean up some of the noise caused by high ISO. A lot of people don't like post processing, they want to treat a digital camera like film. Which is fine, but there's a significant amount of "magic" that can happen after you're done shooting. Good post processing can make a good photo great. The majority of fantastic shots that you see have had good to great post processing. Not all, some photos are just magical straight out of camera, but most have been post processed to some degree. If you get into post processing, look into Adobe's Lightroom. Best $100 you can spend on your camera.

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Skirball — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:30:46 GMT

@Kimgragert wrote:
I guess I really need to get the 70-200 lens, I'll have to see if I can find one that is used. There is so much to learn Ughhh lol

Two things. First, don't get frustrated. As said many times, it's a difficult type of photography to get the results we want (compared to the professional results we see every day). Keep at it, just keep in mind that at some point you will run into a technology barrier that has nothing to do with technique.

If you really do want to get a 70-200, do some research and don't jump at the first one you see. There are 5 versions of the Canon 70-200 now, and several third party versions by Sigma, Tamron, etc. So make sure you find the right one. I recommend the Canon 70-200 2.8 Non-IS (image stabilization). It's a great lens, but there are better so people sell this one to try to upgrade to the new one. Which means it's cheaper. Do not get an f/4 version, you want that 2.8 - it's a shame, because the f/4 non-IS is cheap, light, and very sharp. You do not, however, need image stabilization. This will save cost, and weight.

Watch the Fred Miranda forums, they come up almost daily. Here's one for $900, but I think you can do better:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1329968/0?keyword=70-200#12686531

And a rundown of the Canon options:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF_70%E2%80%93200mm_lens

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Kimgragert — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:34:53 GMT

I'm learning, lol!! I will look into all above u mentioned. It all sounds great, u are very knowledgeable with this! I will def make some changes the next time I'm at my sons games. Wish me luck!! Again thanks for all the info 🙂

Re: canon 50d I have a canon ef-s 55-250 IS lens

Kimgragert — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:37:59 GMT

And thanks for the lenses info I'm going to look into getting one!!