topic Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera) in Speedlite Flashes

Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

RLPhoto — Fri, 01 Mar 2013 21:13:21 GMT

Nikon offers this, Why not on the newest canon speelites?

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

digital — Fri, 01 Mar 2013 22:24:35 GMT

Good question. I wonder if Canon will respond to this.

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

Bingo — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 03:10:34 GMT

Take this with a grain of salt, I was under the impression there is a 2nd curtain setting, but only with optical, not with the radio portion. With radio you have high-speed sync.

I was quickly watching a tutorial video today and I thought that was how it was explained. I'm in the market for a speedlite and will decide which one to buy soon.

I to will be coming back to see what Canon says about this.

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/galleries/galleries/tutorials/syl_arena_speedlite_600exrt_seminar.shtml

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

digital — Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:00:12 GMT

I have done some searches and although I have tried most everything myself I never tried second curtian sync, off camera, optical wireless with my 580's which I sold. So far I have read that optical wireless, off camera, second curtain sync is not possible wiht Canon is not possible. Something do the instruction order Canon has in their programming. I don't know if this applies to all Canon bodies but based on what I read I think it does. It appears Canon applied the same prgramming to RT.

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

John — Sat, 30 Mar 2013 17:57:17 GMT

Bumping the thread because I wonder the same thing.

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

p4pictures — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 06:05:41 GMT

Here's my take...

Firstly there is no second curtain sync with either pulsed light or radio controlled off-camera flashes in the Canon system if you only use Canon kit.

I know for sure that Pocket Wizard can do it with the Flex / Mini devices added to the flashes. Maybe other 3rd party radio triggers too

In the pulsed light system the issue is that the command to "fire now" would need to be sent by pulsed light while the shutter is open, giving ghosting or potentially additional lighting to the scene. In the case of bulb mode for sure the camera won't know how long the shutter might be open before the flash is needed.

Over radio it should be possible, since the radio signal is not visible to the camera, and it's my request for Canon to add it to the radio system using 600EX-RT and ST-E3-RT via firmware update to flash or cameras.

Brian / p4pictures

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

hsfpix — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:34:38 GMT

I quizzed Canon on this some time ago, and received a standard 'technical issue' response. I didn't push them on it, because we both knew that that official line was in fact bunkum. The SCS function can be achieved with a software, firmware or hardware solution - not trivial, but definitely straightforward.

Move on to a Canon evening at the Hollywood CPS facility some months back. There was a tech guy there who shall remain nameless, who revealed that it is almost certainly an oversight - a legacy from the optical system that the product development team neglected to include in the radio system.

Now, it may not be true, but this guy was close to the facts, and did seem rather embarrassed about it.

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

7D5D — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 00:41:11 GMT

Hmm, so if this true I wonder if there is a way to update the firmware without sending a speedlite into Canon assuming someday there is an update. I know I'm getting way ahead, but has anyone ever recalled in the past a method where flash firmware can be field updated such as via a camera?

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

digital — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:36:10 GMT

Since Canon has not replied since March that is a pretty good bet. If all it took was a Camera FM update they would have done it by now. I owned a Metz AF 58 at one time. It had a port so you could do FM updates. Very cool.

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

digital — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 18:18:57 GMT

Actually now that I think about thsi a good reason to come out with the ST-E3- RT II with second curtain sync, then the ST-E3-RT III with both SCS and AF assist and so on

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

p4pictures — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 19:29:05 GMT

I'm pretty sure it is possible to update the firmware in the transmitter, and also the flashes. Can it be done from the camera by an end-user, that I'm not so sure. However consider that the camera has a pretty good communication flow with the flash/transmitter then I think it's probable that it could be possible to update firmware from the camera.

Let's not forget that firmware updates for lenses and wifi transmitters have also been distributed for updating via the camera in the past.

In priority for me SCS and then also a pre-flash boost function. Some of the random-ness of the Canon flash system in E-TTL II can ususally be fixed by grouping two flashes together. This suggests that in bright light the pre-flash is not enough to be seen / measured.

Brian / p4pictures

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

digital — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 05:39:50 GMT

Yes someone at Dpreview said Nikon updates flash FW regularly via the camera. Maybe it is more than just FW but I find that puzzling. It is odd Canon has not responded to this one.

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

WahoGT — Wed, 26 Jun 2013 15:33:28 GMT

As I responded to this in another thread, from what I've heard from a famous Professional Photographer who uses Canon gear, it's a patent issue, not a technical one (since Nikon's can do this). Canon probably doesn't want to directly address an issue it can't legally do anything about. No Canon flashes can do this, optically or radio. It's not a new issue with the 600EX-RT. So there is no loss of functionality by upgrading... you just don't get that feature added.

The current workaround is to use optical slaves on your flashes (triggered by a 2nd curtain sync'd master either on-camera or off camera on an ETTL cord) or 3rd party radio triggers with this functionality built in.

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

digital — Wed, 26 Jun 2013 22:56:18 GMT

That is interesting. If this is true so be it. However one must wonder if it is only a patent issue why doesn't Canon just say so. I know they have read this thread becuase they respond to many others. Common Canon, fess up. I sold my 580 and 580II, several 3rd party flashes, Cybersync triggers/recievers, etc for 3 x 600 and an STE3. You can do it for me

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

MrMike — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 02:41:40 GMT

I'm very disappointed. Othe vendors offer second curtain sync, heck even third party vendors give us S. C. Sync. Why won't you Canon?? The least you can do is give us an explaination. I will think twice and do my research before buying another Canon product. Nikons shine brighter now in my opinion.

And yes Canon, I realize 2nd curtain sync is available with the flash mounted on camera. But do you buy a flash ( or in my case, 2 flash kit with commander) just to put it on your camera and leave it there?

So more clearly put, why is this not available via your ST E3 RT? Please answer, Thanks

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

Skirball — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 15:18:53 GMT

I'd love to see some cites of this patent infringement. I just don't believe it. Canon came out with a completely new form of technology (RT), new to camera manufacturers anyway. And they still couldn't get around the patent? I'm not buying it.

No idea why Canon continues to disappoint on this front. Perhaps you may consider looking to get the Yongnuo knockoff of the ST-E3-RT - the YN-E3-RT. It offers second curtain sync (but only in manual), as well as allowing all dSLRs (not just 2012 and later) to use the new group mode. And of course, it's half the price of the Canon version.

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

oldmanwalking — Wed, 23 Jul 2014 22:55:29 GMT

I checked w/CPS and walked through the issue with the tech and learned that I get SCS with a 600EX-RT in the 1DX hot shoe, ETTL, no "master" or "slave" setting. And was told that it works *only* in this configuration. No off-camera flash access.

I don't know about other camera/flash combinations. .

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

RobertTheFat — Thu, 24 Jul 2014 01:28:02 GMT

@oldmanwalking wrote:
I checked w/CPS and walked through the issue with the tech and learned that I get SCS with a 600EX-RT in the 1DX hot shoe, ETTL, no "master" or "slave" setting. And was told that it works *only* in this configuration. No off-camera flash access.

I don't know about other camera/flash combinations. .

Maybe they're afraid their off-camera triggering mechanisms aren't fast enough to support 2CS. With 1CS, if the triggered response is a little late, it may not be noticed; a late 2CS could result in an unevenly lit image.

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

hsfpix — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 07:32:24 GMT

SCS occurs well within the timing capability of the RF signalling required. Getting back to the original post, it is a Canon legacy issue - nothing more than a blatant oversight from the IR system.

The proof of this is that Yongnou's ST-E3 equivalent provides Second Curtain Sync (manual mode only, but that is only how I use it anyway), and is a lot cheaper. Oh, and it has focus assist too....Been using it heavily over the last few months.

Putting my ST-E3 up for sale this week.

Re: Why no 2nd curtain Sync on 600-RT speedlites? (Off-camera)

ScottyP — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 23:53:30 GMT

Phottix Mitros Plus has both SCS off-camera and also remote control over flash zoom. They now have a package with one Mitros Plus flash and a Phottix Odin trigger so you can save just a bit in assembling your setup, as the Odin takes the place of one flash unit.

http://www.adorama.com/PH80375.html