topic Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master) in Speedlite Flashes

HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

kmgsakoian — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 00:58:26 GMT

Hey guys! So I have a 580exii that was working great as a master to my 430exii slave, up until last night. I was using it for a product set up, where I used the 430exii with my rapid box off to the left, and kept the flash off on the master. Now my 580exii keeps firing even though it's disabled, and it looks like it's no longer connected with the 430exii because it's no longer firing. What could have caused this? Does this sound like I need to get it fixed, or maybe a new one?

Thanks!

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

kvbarkley — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 01:02:45 GMT

I think we need more data. You do know that the 580 will fire in E-TTL wireless mode to talk to the 430EX, right?

What camera? Are the settings in the camera correct?

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

kmgsakoian — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 01:14:39 GMT

I did not know that! You'll have to excuse me, I'm a newbie in OCF. I disable it all the time and it's never gone off, so this is a first for me. It is in ETTL as of now, so that might explain it. But the slave still isn't firing. It's on the Canon 5D Mark iii, and the settings are 1/125, 7.1, ISO 100.

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

diverhank — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 06:43:50 GMT

There are reasons the flashes are doing what they're doing. Apparently something has changed.

Since the Master started to fire when it wasn't told to... Let's start there.

How was it told not to fire? At the flash or at the camera? Start at the camera first. Because the camera settings will override the flash settings. If the camera settings are correct then check the Master flash settings. The settings should be master, not firing, channel, ID. Then check the slave - slave, same channel and ID.

Kvbarkley was probably thinking of the built-in flash firing. The 580 will not fire visible flashes when told not to. By the way, the 430 is fully capable of being the Master use it. Use the 580 as the firing slave. It's more powerful and has more precise ETTL

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

kvbarkley — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 15:49:04 GMT

No I am not. Even as a master in wireless flash mode the 580EX will fire the flash to talk to the slave. This is not an RT!

I do recommend Syl Arena's Speedliters handbook. It will cover *everything* you need to know.

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

kmgsakoian — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 15:57:34 GMT

I tried disabling the flash on the flash unit, as well as on the camera, and it continues to flash. I did notice that the flash was going off right before, not affecting the shot, so maybe as a pre-flash? But I still don't want it to go off at all. Those settings you mentioned are what I have set on both of them. I tried clearing the settings on the camera as well, and then put them back to those settings, and it's still going off when it's disabled.

I'm confused - I don't think the 430exii is able to be used as a master?

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

kmgsakoian — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 15:59:10 GMT

kvbarkley - Great - I'll definitely check that out! Thanks! So you're saying it will always go off? Because in the past I'm pretty sure I've been able to set it so it doesn't go off...maybe I'm wrong and never noticed it going off?

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

kvbarkley — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 16:09:41 GMT

If you are using the flash as a controller (and don't have an RT flash!) then it has to fire to control the slave.

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

diverhank — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 16:25:36 GMT

@kvbarkley wrote:
If you are using the flash as a controller (and don't have an RT flash!) then it has to fire to control the slave.

Yes, but it's using the infrared stuff...you won't see the flashes like in the case of the built-in flash. Think about the ST-E2-RT...how does it control the slaves without having a flash? Answer: infrared.

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

kvbarkley — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 16:33:36 GMT

No, they use the flash, the inrared does not have enough power to work in the sunlight. The ST-ET uses a low power flash tube with a red filter to cut down the annoyance factor. From the 580EX manual (note the note):

I really wish you guys would make sure about things before confusing the issue with false information.

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

diverhank — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 16:44:25 GMT

@kmgsakoian wrote:
I tried disabling the flash on the flash unit, as well as on the camera, and it continues to flash. I did notice that the flash was going off right before, not affecting the shot, so maybe as a pre-flash? But I still don't want it to go off at all. Those settings you mentioned are what I have set on both of them. I tried clearing the settings on the camera as well, and then put them back to those settings, and it's still going off when it's disabled.

I'm confused - I don't think the 430exii is able to be used as a master?

If you see it's going off, it's probably for the purpose of focusing (but normally it's done by infrared, unless you disable the infrared function -not sure you can with the 5DIII - I don't have the camera with me to check)

I'm sorry you're right, the 430exII is not capable of being a master. It's been a while since I last used the 580EX II and 430EX II and when I used them, I used a ST-E2-RT as the controller so the 430EX II I used was always a slave...I've switched over to using the radio control 600 series.

I guess I owe kvbarkley an apology also. Since I use the St-E2-RT as the master and it does not use a flash, I'm a bit confused on why it would work differently on the 580EXII as a master.

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

kvbarkley — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 16:47:47 GMT

It doesn't. It just has a red filter over the flash tube.

Follow my advice and get The Speedliter's handbook, you will learn more than you want to about stuff you will never own. 8^)

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

RobertTheFat — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 16:57:38 GMT

@diverhank wrote:
@kmgsakoian wrote:
I tried disabling the flash on the flash unit, as well as on the camera, and it continues to flash. I did notice that the flash was going off right before, not affecting the shot, so maybe as a pre-flash? But I still don't want it to go off at all. Those settings you mentioned are what I have set on both of them. I tried clearing the settings on the camera as well, and then put them back to those settings, and it's still going off when it's disabled.

I'm confused - I don't think the 430exii is able to be used as a master?
If you see it's going off, it's probably for the purpose of focusing (but normally it's done by infrared, unless you disable the infrared function -not sure you can with the 5DIII - I don't have the camera with me to check)

I'm sorry you're right, the 430exII is not capable of being a master. It's been a while since I last used the 580EX II and 430EX II and when I used them, I used a ST-E2-RT as the controller so the 430EX II I used was always a slave...I've switched over to using the radio control 600 series.

I guess I owe kvbarkley an apology also. Since I use the St-E2-RT as the master and it does not use a flash, I'm a bit confused on why it would work differently on the 580EXII as a master.

The AF assist beam is IR by default, but the remote control beam to the slave pretty clearly isn't. I don't have a 580EX ii manual handy, but I do have a 580EX manual. It makes no mention of using IR to fire the slave.

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

TCampbell — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 17:13:57 GMT

You might want to pick up a copy of the "Speedliter's Handbook" by Syl Arena.

Syl is a Canon "Explorer of Light" photographer and occasional does seminars on flash photography with Canon speedlites.

He does a great job explaining how the system really works and you finally understand how to control the speedlites.

BTW, you can also just search for his name on YouTube... he has made a LOT of video tutorials and recorded seminars that you can watch.

As for the 430 not firing...

The master flash is communicating via the white strobe (which is why you see it flash even when disabled. It only fires when the shutter is still closed and when the shutter opens only the remote flash should fire if the on-camera flash is set to 'disabled'). However... the receiver sensor is in the lower unit of both flashes and this needs a line-of-site to the flash on the on-camera master.

If you are shooting indoors, the receiver may pick up the light reflection off the walls and ceilings and flash anyway. But if you are outdoors, there's no walls to bounce the light so the off-camera flash typically wont fire unless you rotate the speedlite body so that the lower unit (the red lens) is pointed at the on-camera master. The 'heads' swivel so you can still rotate the head to fire the light in whatever direction you need.

Re: HELP - 580ex ii is FIRING when it's been disabled? (in master)

kmgsakoian — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 18:04:27 GMT

Thanks so much kvbarkley, & everyone else that's helped! I actually just bought the book hah. That makes sense then, because it's working now with the slave, and I've noticed the flash is not affecting the image when it's disabled, so it must be the pre-flash.