topic Re: C70 a little soft? in Professional Video

C70 a little soft?

AtticusLake — Mon, 31 May 2021 19:23:39 GMT

Hi,

I'm wondering if C70 owners are seeing the images from the camera a little soft? Is this a usual thing?

I recently got my C70 (a refurb unit) and started using it. Overall I love it, but when I dropped some C70 footage into a project alongside some existing footage shot on a Sony PXW-X70, I was a little disapointed that the C70 footage was noticeably softer.

Since then I've shot a bunch of tests, covering:

both my lenses -- Canon RF 35mm STN and the Canon RF 15-35mm L
XAVC Long GOP, XAVC Intra, and MP4
Clog2 and Rec 709

Looks like the same results every time.

Now I'm aware that the X70 may be aggresively sharpening in camera, but it's odd (to me) that the Sony X70 on sharp +0 is significanty sharper than the C70 on +0 -- and even sharper than the C70 on +50, the max. And the C70 just looks blurry.

Am I being over-paranoid? Here are some samples...

Re: C70 a little soft?

rs-eos — Mon, 31 May 2021 20:08:11 GMT

From watching various YouTube videos on the C70, I recall hearing that Canon's cinema line produces softer images than what a typical DSLR would generate (e.g. EOS R5). I don't know though if the cinema line is generally softer than typical camcorders as well, to include the PXW-X70. One videographer ending up using a "Pro Mist" filter on the R5 to produce footage a bit more like the EOS C200.

I'm hoping to pick up the C70 tomorrow so looking forward to running various tests. I no longer own my PXW-X70 though so cannot replicate this exact same test.

Re: C70 a little soft?

AtticusLake — Mon, 31 May 2021 20:30:29 GMT

Thanks for that; yes, I was wondering what the C200 and C300 would be like. Maybe it's just that they do less to the image in camera.

Re: C70 a little soft?

Nick2020 — Tue, 01 Jun 2021 05:35:09 GMT

Hi AtticusLake,

Thanks for checking in with us!

Generally speaking, our professional-series cameras will have less digital sharpening added because some filmmakers and videographers like to add sharpening in post. I haven't seen anything to suggest that the EOS C70 is less sharp than our other Cinema EOS cameras though.

I would recommend that you clean the metal connectors between lens and camera with a lint-free lens cloth. Then try doing additional tests with different lenses. If you are consistently seeing soft results, you may wish.

If problems persist, I suggest that you email us at cinemaeos@cits.canon.com with details about your camera, your date of purchase, and the state from where you are sending the camera, and we'll walk you through the repair process.

Re: C70 a little soft?

AtticusLake — Tue, 01 Jun 2021 19:04:17 GMT

Thanks Nick. The more I look at my footage, specially newer footage, the more I think the softness is within the range of the camera's sharpening choices -- in other words, what you're saying.

I think my earlier tests had a lot of very diffuse light which really made them look bad compared to my Sony X70 footage, which was in a much clearer and contrastier setting. The C70 is definitely softer, but the more I look at it the more it looks pretty minor. Sharpening in Premire (using Lumetri sharpening at 100%) brings it right up. Having to go 100% seemed odd too, but I guess Lumetri is really conservative about this.

Of course the X70 is going for a more out-of-the-box shiny look, so of course they're cranking it. I really do appreciate that the C70 doesn't bake sharpening and noise reduction into my footage.

So, still getting used to my C70 -- and loving it.

Thanks again,

Ian

Re: C70 a little soft?

Notend — Wed, 06 Oct 2021 11:35:42 GMT

Very good quality.

Re: C70 a little soft?

wobbleman99 — Wed, 06 Oct 2021 16:38:15 GMT

I don't own a C70, but I do own a C300 MK III, and I agree that the 4k output can be somewhat soft. That said, sharpneing in post allows one to fully compensate—assuming that the softness is not lens related—or, in the alternative, a profile can be set in-camera to add the desired amount of sharpening.

I had done some testing, with brand new Canon 'L' lenses and a Siemans Star Chart, for this when first receiving the camera. While the resolution had been excellent, the level of perceived sharpness did not meet with my expectations and the addition of a small amount of sharpening in DaVinci Resolve had brought it up to speed.

Re: C70 a little soft?

AtticusLake — Wed, 06 Oct 2021 17:28:31 GMT

Thanks for the reply. I've pretty much come to the same conclusion -- with a bit of sharpenng in post, I can get the sharpness I want without any visible artefacts. I do it in post, 'cos I distrust in-camera sharpening -- though with the C70, it does seem very well done.

Re: C70 a little soft?

wobbleman99 — Wed, 06 Oct 2021 17:35:15 GMT

You're welcome, and I agree, sharpening in post is a better approach.

Re: C70 a little soft?

wobbleman99 — Fri, 12 Nov 2021 22:43:17 GMT

Hello,

I had responded to this threat at the beginning, and had noticed 'soft' files when shooting 4k as well, But I had resolved the issue and had intended to post my solution here, but got distracted with other, non video related issuies.

That said, nowhere in the discusion—unless I had overlooked it—had there been any mention of the frame rates used. I had been shooting with a frame rate of 29.97 when the C300 MK III had begun disgorging soft images/files. I'd subsequently changed the frame rate to 59.94 fps and videos were then nice and sharp, and have remained so. As an added benefit, the in-camera stabilization appears to be more effective at this frame rate as well, although that could be illusory.

Re: C70 a little soft?

Blakerunner — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 01:38:33 GMT

I'm with you on this one. I have two C300 Mark 2, and one c70. When I shoot 1080 for network TV, the c70 is very much softer. This is not great, as I like to deliver matching cameras for the network interviews. They don't grade the footage shot to shot in post like you might think, and I am presently futzing with the detail circuit in camera (not desirable, I know) to be able to present matching footage.

Re: C70 a little soft?

AtticusLake — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 09:16:14 GMT

Hi, thanks for posting that -- I did notice, and I've spent weeks trying to find time to shoot some tests!

Well, I've shot some stuff, and as far as I can see, there's no difference between 23.976 and 59.94, in terms of sharpness. However my tests were on a tripod, so maybe IS is an issue? Or if your tests were moving, could it have been motion blur? Obviously a faster shutter speed will reduce motion blur.

Re: C70 a little soft?

wobbleman99 — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:57:51 GMT

Hi AtticusLake,

I'm not sure why there should be a difference in perceived sharpness with the C70 vs the C300 MK III, and I do not have a C70 to compare with. However, I did notice that the C300—out of the box—was not as sharp shooting 4k as I would have liked with, for example, a Canon EF L 16-35mm F/4 IS lens with EIS enabled in-camera and shot from a monopod. And while I may be suffering from visual hallucinations—LOL—I've noticed a marked degree of improvement with the noted Frame Rate boost and some tweaking of the detail setting. But the biggest degree of improvement was noted after my recent purchase of the Canon CN-E 70-200mm Compact Servo Zoom, and I am beginning to question the image producing quality of some of my older EF lenses. The fact that the videos produced with the servo zoom are sharp, suggests to me that the problem doesn't reside with the camera. But all of this aside, adding some sharpening in post does, for the most part, compensate for any softness.

Re: C70 a little soft?

Lukepvsh — Fri, 26 Jan 2024 04:48:04 GMT

Hey! I know this might be old news, but I had a similar problem, mine was with the RAW files. It felt like it would be sharp in camera, on set, then soft in post. Realized that the sharpness was defaulting to 0 on the RAW file for some reason. Once I put that to the default (10 in DaVinci resolve), suddenly it was tack sharp but not super digital sharp. Love that camera, and keep discovering how useful it is