topic Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue in Professional Video

Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

greggyp89 — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:04:04 GMT

I just bought both R5C and Ninja V + and to my dismay recording in log or raw on the ninja results in a noticeable quality and color change. It barely comes back to 709 after lut. I really wanted to use the ninja for recording as the audio sounds a lot better with its preamps. Is Canon going to fix this Color Gamut issue over HDMI?

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

Waddizzle — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 01:49:30 GMT

What makes you so convinced your issue is a bug?

Just because your results are not what you expected, that does not mean you have found a bug. There are many users with similar gear and not experiencing your issue(s).

Could you be experiencing some type of hardware failure? Maybe. There is no denying that.

Could you have really uncovered a bug in the basic operation of how the gear works that others users have not? I seriously doubt it.

There is a major difference between a hardware failure, which affects only a few users, and a firmware bug, which affect all users.

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

greggyp89 — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:20:20 GMT

I have watched numerous YouTube videos and discovered every single person using the ninja and C log 3 are having same issue. Josh Sattin had a Livestream last night with Reach Films and they discussed having the issue. They also stated the issue was present no matter what Canon camera they used. I have only experienced it with my R5C. Last week I recorded a video on the R5C in a video on the Ninja at the same time. I discovered the issue first hand. Of course I can't 100% say that everyone has the issue but it seems so.

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

Waddizzle — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 11:23:00 GMT

This video is over two years old. He has not reported any issues with the R5 shooing in CLog3 and saving to a Ninja V. He wants a powerful computer. He upgraded at a later date and has been pleased with his results ever since.

https://youtu.be/g_tAOjC2xsg?t=253

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

greggyp89 — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:00:41 GMT

Yes I'm not particularly sure about this YouTuber. Here is one of the ones that was discussing it last night. I still have a lot of testing to do. As of right now I can't rely on it fully but hopefully soon.

https://youtu.be/41pvncWei2k

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

greggyp89 — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:05:47 GMT

I have heard using BT2020 color space is the solution. It may be a limit of HDMI according to this comment.

It's a problem with HDMI standards and

Canon Cinema Gamut. HDMI simply

does not support Canon Cinema Gamut.

It's too wide a color space for the HDMI

standard.

BT2020, however, is supported by HDMI,

so the Atomos Ninja, Ninja V+ and

Shogun series recorders can accurately

record BT2020 video because the

BT2020 color space is supported by

the HDMI standard. So the problem is

that Canon Cinema gamut color space

exceeds the HDMI standard. If you want

to use wide gamut color space on your

Atomos recorder via the HDMI feed,

you are limited to a max color space of BT2020

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

rs-eos — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:58:42 GMT

That makes sense. I'm thinking that the wider Cinema Gamut led to "clipping" for lack of a better word in those colors outside BT2020? And thus causing the color shifts.

Maybe someday we'll see full support of the ACES color space across the board.

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

greggyp89 — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:25:44 GMT

This may be a silly question but is there a way to change the color space on the R5C itself? When I I choose C log 3 as an option the color space is not changeable. I know on the Ninja itself I can probably change it. I'm unsure if they are referring to the ninja settings or on the R5C?

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

rs-eos — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:45:27 GMT

I don't have the R5 C, so not exactly sure how to make the change. On page 133 of the Advanced Video User Guide, it does make mention about Custom Picture Settings and shows that Canon Log 3 with BT.2020 is possible.

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

shadowsports — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 16:09:18 GMT

I've read about this myself. Issues with wide gamut color space support on HDMI out.. some have said it looks a little dull and washed out. I have never tested it. I also watch Josh's YouTube channel. He just bought the R5 C again for the third time. I don't use the feature so I cannot comment on the output I'm afraid.

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

cwilson — Tue, 29 Aug 2023 13:14:16 GMT

Could this be the same issue other camera system users report with using external recorders with the range being flagged incorrectly? 0-255 which is full range vs 16-235 which is limited range (typical for HDMI)? Changing the range manually in premiere has fixed that issue for other cameras.

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

greggyp89 — Tue, 29 Aug 2023 13:28:22 GMT

That would be a possibility but when recording in ProRes on the Ninja V Plus I am using the legalize option. Supposedly, It's supposed to fix that issue. I will try this in report back though. So when I record through HDMI RAW it comes out perfect. Exactly the same as Cannon raw but more manageable files with Apple ProRes RAW. Last night I recorded in ProRes using legalize and color space BT 2020. The shadows are crushed and the image is a lot darker than normal.

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

cwilson — Tue, 29 Aug 2023 13:31:12 GMT

I recall when this feature came out on the Ninja (I was using a lumix at the time) and the universal consensus was that the legalize option broke stuff and didn't work as intended. That might be different now with the updates and the + version, but I can't test at the moment.

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

jonathanhophoto — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 17:26:50 GMT

In the CP (Color Profile) Menu, "Edit" the profile and choose "Unprotected". You should now be able to change the colour space.

Or otherwise make a new CP and choose your own color space.

Hope this is what you were referring to.

Jon

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

Ronslick — Sat, 16 Mar 2024 01:10:26 GMT

Does anyone know why I wouldn't be able to record with r5 c and ninja v plus only in hdmi raw super 35 & 16 mm at 30fps only? I can't record anything else nor view anything on the monitor at 60fps

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

jonathanhophoto — Sun, 17 Mar 2024 05:56:11 GMT

Hi Ronslick,

I’ve been using the R5C+atomos ninja v plus for awhile now. No issues.

For the screen issue, make sure you have turned off the automatic switch between viewfinder and lcd. Choose LCD only. I have also found at times this setting somehow resets back to default. As long as you power down properly and not just disconnect its power source.

On the other hand of what setting do you have for recording? Eg. Shutter, F-Stop, ISO, Colour Profile

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

Ronslick — Sun, 17 Mar 2024 11:29:07 GMT

Well I can view the screen as a monitor in any mode. But when it comes to recording to the ninja like I do with my eos r and another r5 c I used in the past. But with this r5 c I can only record in hdmi raw in super 35 & 16 mode at 30fps anything above that 30fps I get no input on screen in hdmi raw. And this is on both lastest update ninja 11.4.2 , r5 c 1.0.6.1

And that's in any settings recording, Shutter, F-Stop, ISO, Colour Profile! What's eg?

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

jonathanhophoto — Sun, 17 Mar 2024 12:39:28 GMT

Hey Ronslick,

First up, HDMI Raw out (Prores RAW on the Ninja V+) is only limited to 25p on 50Hz and 23.98p, 29.97p. Please note this is for Full Frame Sensor Mode which gives me 8k.

Sensor Mode: Full Frame

Available Frame Rates on 59.94Hz - 23.98p, 29.97p

Available Frame Rates on 50Hz - 25p

Available Resolutions 8K (8192x4320) only

Sensor Mode: Super 35mm

Available Frame Rates on 59.94Hz - 23.98p, 29.97p and 59.94p

Available Frame Rates on 50Hz - 25p and 50p

Available Resolutions 5.9k (5952x3140) only

Sensor Mode: Super 16mm

Available Frame Rates on 59.95Hz - 23.98p, 29.97p and 59.94p

Available Frame Rates on 50Hz - 25p and 50p

Available Resolutions 3k (2976x1570) only

I tested both in BT709 Wide DR (and Standard) + Clog 3 Cinema Gamut

All works.

Have you tried changing the sensor mode?

Thanks

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

jonathanhophoto — Sun, 17 Mar 2024 12:53:39 GMT

I also may of gotten what you had as I was playing around with various Sensor Mode settings just then and there was no signal on the Ninja V+ and only in Super 35 and 16. Exactly what you stated. I then went into Ninja's V+ 's Input settings and changed HDMI standard 2.0 to Comparability mode. Then Full Frame came back up. Give that a try.

Re: Canon R5C with Atomos Ninja V Plus Color Gamut issue

Ronslick — Mon, 18 Mar 2024 01:09:40 GMT

Thanks a lot it took awhile of playing with it but it finally works.I Think the reason I don't see 6k at 60p and 8k 30 is due to the fact I don't have an hdmi 2.1 but now it makes me run into another issue I've been tryIng to figure out for the last 6 hours. Now that the camera is recording to the monitor it's recording what it is seeing on the camera screen. I'm guessing they are calling recording the camera E.V.F(electric viewfinder). Do you have that problem?