topic Re: Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony & in Professional Video

Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony & Fuji)

MrR5C — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 18:58:38 GMT

I can't find anywhere to make a feature request that would actually be seen by Canon and not just generic customer support, but I've heard about people making feature requests before, so where is the best place to do that?

The one feature lacking that's really bothering me not to have in the R5C and a feature I've been hoping for in firmware since launch is a feature Sony 8K cameras have and I'm pretty sure Fuji as well...and that's the ability to shoot 8K in a smaller file size than the current 400 Mbps minimum on the R5C (the Sony A1 can do 200 Mbps in 8K30fps 10 bit, which is half the size and is a big deal since that saves a ton of money on storage over the years). One of the major reasons I wasn't going to get the R5C at first was because of the minimum 8K file sizes being double the size compared to Sony but I went with it anyway hoping maybe in a future firmware they'd release an updated file size option for 8K that's smaller since that doesn't seem unrealistic and is pretty doable since their competitors are already doing it. I feel like this is a reasonable request I just don't know where I'm supposed to make the request.

Edit: I should also mention on the Sony A1 there isn't a noticeable difference in the quality between 200mbps and 400mpbs 8k as you can see in this video which is also why it would be very useful to have a lower sized 8k: https://youtu.be/eO1B9p_p7cE?t=402

Re: Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony &

rs-eos — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 10:46:08 GMT

To provide feedback to Canon, go to usa.canon.com, scroll down to the bottom and next to the copyright notice, click on "[+] Feedback".

Re: Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony &

rs-eos — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 10:48:00 GMT

Also, I hope you realize that with compression that high, you'll end up losing quite a bit of quality. Why not just capture in 4K if you need to work with smaller bit rates?

Re: Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony &

shadowsports — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 13:50:45 GMT

Greetings,

A fellow user names @AtticusLake did an excellent video that includes Codec and Bitrates. It starts at 13:48 and 19:00 minutes, but the entire video is well done. I think Ian shot this on FW version 1.0.3.1.

Have you tried shooting in Cinema RAW LT? If you would like to discuss more, please share the recording modes you are selecting.

These start on page 61 of the user guide.

eosr5c-aug5-video-en.pdf (c-wss.com)

Re: Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony &

MrR5C — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 18:41:59 GMT

That's not true, YouTuber Gerald Undone did a comparison between the 200mbps and 400mpbs 8k on the Sony A1 and said he couldn't tell a difference (Here's a link to that comparison: https://youtu.be/eO1B9p_p7cE?t=402)

Also 8K is necessary because I do a lot of cropping and zooming with the footage, which is the entire reason I bought an 8K camera to begin with.

Re: Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony &

shadowsports — Mon, 03 Jul 2023 03:51:47 GMT

@MrR5C,

Have you considered shooting in 4K and using the teleconverter option introduced in v1.0.4.1 and now ultimately in 1.0.5.1? This might give you the 8K oversampling you are looking for with the crop or zoom. Another option might be 6K in super35 mode. Just throwing some additional options out there for you.

Re: Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony &

MrR5C — Mon, 03 Jul 2023 20:09:19 GMT

I appreciate your help but I chose the R5C so I can shoot specifically in 8K because I do a lot of cropping in on shots and significant zooming animations in editing. Shooting in 4K limits the amount I can zoom in while retaining full quality and if I start zoomed in while shooting then I don't have the main wide shot I use. Same applies to 6K, plus the 6K super35 file sizes are significantly larger than the smallest 8K MP4 file so that makes the issue worse. Either way I bought this camera to shoot 8K, but my concern is just it would save a ton of money on storage having an 8K file size that's smaller like Sony and Fuji that is half the size at 200mbps while still being 10 bit and not losing noticeable quality compared to 400mbps.

Re: Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony &

rs-eos — Mon, 03 Jul 2023 20:14:08 GMT

It's all a tradeoff. There won't be some magic algorithm that would give you high quality at such low bitrates.

The EOS C70 can go up to around 440 Mbps and that's for 10-bit 4:2:2 DCI-4K. Assuming things are linear, that would be around 1.8 Gbps for 8K. Other cinema cameras bitrates are much higher (e.g. EOS C200 RAW is 2 Gbps for 4K, or if it could do 8K, then around 8 Gbps).

At 200 Mbps and 10 bit, that's like having around 16 Mbps for an HD frame. True, there are better codecs out there with lower bit rates than say H.264. But at such a low bitrate, you're going to be giving up quality.

When moving to 4K, it was very costly. Additional storage, V90 SD cards, more computer drive space, more backup drive space, etc. Working with 8K is insanely demanding of storage resources.

Re: Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony &

MrR5C — Mon, 03 Jul 2023 20:59:57 GMT

You must work for Canon or something because I don't know why I have to keep repeating myself. For the third time Sony and Fuji both offer 8K in a 10 bit 200mbps bitrate and as shown here in this video by YouTuber Gerald Undone who knows what's he's talking about, there's no noticeable difference between 8K 10 bit in 200mpbs vs 400mpbs on Sony: https://youtu.be/eO1B9p_p7cE?t=402

I have offered proof this is not some "magic" I'm asking for. Almost every other 8K camera in this price range or lower except Nikon offers a smaller 8K file size. I'm simply suggesting Canon offer the bare minimum that their competitors are offering and that should be very doable and reasonable for a firmware update. It's ridiculous that you're acting like this is "magic" or something far fetched when it's already being done on a few cameras.

Re: Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony &

shadowsports — Tue, 04 Jul 2023 02:12:55 GMT

This is what we have to work with. The R5 C does not do 8k in h265 4:2:0 in 10bit at 200 Mbps. It can do 4K at 60p in h265 4:2:0 10 bit at 170Mbps. I believe the Sony only does 24 or 30p in their "binned" mode. So as Ricky points out, its a trade off. Neither of us work for Canon. There aren't any excuses to be made. Canon does it one way, Sony does it another.

I've made several feature requests with Canon. You should as well since the feature is important to you. I am happy to say that several of the things I wanted and asked for were addressed. Starting with being able to disable the onboard mic when an external mic was connected. We just got a bunch more stuff this weekend in v1.0.5.1. Anything you get after a product is released that isn't a bug, is a bonus. Make your request. Not every feature request is fulfilled, but when possible, things do happen.

Re: Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony &

John_SD — Tue, 04 Jul 2023 16:23:21 GMT

"I'm simply suggesting Canon offer the bare minimum that their competitors are offering and that should be very doable and reasonable for a firmware update. It's ridiculous that you're acting like this is "magic" or something far fetched when it's already being done on a few cameras."

This is a user-to-user forum and Ricky has already told you how to make a feature request. It isn't that difficult.

Re: Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony &

MrR5C — Tue, 04 Jul 2023 18:35:34 GMT

I already did the [+Feedback] thing (even though that doesn't seem like it's meant for making a feature request since it requires you to provide a star rating). I wouldn't still be replying here if it wasn't for the Rs-eos guy who keeps responding acting like a feature that already exists on multiple competitor's 8K cameras is far fetched, unreasonable, and would result in quality loss, while ignoring evidence I've provided that it already exists and results in no noticeable quality loss.

Re: Where to make a feature request for R5C firmware? (Request: Smaller 8K file size like Sony &

John_SD — Tue, 04 Jul 2023 19:09:09 GMT

I'd say that you have done what you can do. Look, none of us play golf with the CEO or have weekend cookouts with senior directors of Canon. We do not have those kinds of "ins." The vast majority of us here are mere hobbyists and enthusiasts, with a few low-level pros or retired pros in the mix. Wishing for camera functionality that doesn't exist is fruitless or believing that if one could only get his request before a senior decision maker would result in engineering resources being redirected isn't going to happen. I think the best way to get exactly what you want is to do detailed research before making a purchasing decision.