topic Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots. in Point & Shoot Digital Cameras

Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

GloriaS — Thu, 16 Jan 2014 16:51:08 GMT

Hello All,

I want inhanced feather defination, especially for white birds. I usually take shots before 11AM and between 3PM and sunset.

Owner of a Canon Power Shot SX50 HS. I like the 50X zoom, but maybe I zoom in too much or birds are to far away.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

hsbn — Thu, 16 Jan 2014 19:52:55 GMT

There are limits to P&S camera but you can improve the image quality some what. First, shoot RAW (your camera support RAW), use lower ISO setting if you can. If you shoot JPG, in camera noise reduction may rob your image quality a lot.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

cicopo — Thu, 16 Jan 2014 20:27:07 GMT

I think the most important thing to help with feather detail is a high shutter speed AND rock steady camera. ANY camera shake will smear that detail and the longer the lens (as in the higher the mm number used) the more that shake smear will destroy fine detail. This applies to any camera / lens combo & we've been taught to always use a shutter speed above 1/focal length when not using a good tripod. SO if your SX50 is zoomed to 500 mm (35 mm film camera equavelent) you need at least a 1/500 shutter speed BUT IS can allow slightly slower but it's better to have a higher shutter speed than depend on IS.

I also agree that shooting in RAW will help retain better detail but I suspect shooting gulls like in your sample may also fool the metering slightly (the grey & white colours) so you may need to adjust your exposure slightly if the gull fills most of the frame.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

GloriaS — Thu, 16 Jan 2014 20:39:23 GMT

Thank you so much for your reply on this subject. I'm going to try this and see what happens.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

GloriaS — Thu, 16 Jan 2014 20:43:53 GMT

Thank you very much for your reply. I have never tried shooting RAW. I do have my ISO setting on 160 now. Will have to see what the RAW mode will allow. Will try your suggestion and see what happens....thanks again and have a great afternoon!

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

cicopo — Thu, 16 Jan 2014 21:21:43 GMT

If you don't understand what RAW is & why it's so useful Adobe has a pretty nice explination here.

http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/understanding_digitalrawcapture.pdf

When you but a camera that produces jpg's you trust the built in software to do an acceptable job at converting the RAW data to a nice jpg, but every brand of camera uses different standards in trying to please it's customers. Some favor greener greens, some bluer blues for the shy etc. When you shoot RAW you can fine tune the exposure & the tints, brightness etc & create as many different jpg's from the original data as you'd like. You never modify the RAW data, you simply use it as the starting point of each image.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

bradmoss — Thu, 16 Jan 2014 21:45:55 GMT

Have you watched this Video

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

cicopo — Fri, 17 Jan 2014 00:17:25 GMT

You forgot to add the link.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

GloriaS — Fri, 17 Jan 2014 01:56:37 GMT

Thanks for that additional info. I appreciate your input on this subject!

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

GloriaS — Fri, 17 Jan 2014 02:19:16 GMT

Yes, but this seemed to apply for persons with DSLR camera's that have lens. Mine is a NON-DSLR with 50X zoom.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

GaryS — Fri, 17 Jan 2014 02:33:41 GMT

@cicopo wrote:
You forgot to add the link.

Click on the word video.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

cicopo — Fri, 17 Jan 2014 02:46:25 GMT

The important rules of photography apply to any & all cameras. The major difference between P & S cameras with a non changible lens & DSLR's is that they can use consumer grade lenses thru the most expensive of top quality Luxury grade lenses (the L series in Canon's line up, and Nikon doesn't have that level of lens). The really important difference between all the different cameras is the physical size of the sensor for any given megapixel spec. IF you have a P & S with 10 megapixels on a small sensor it can not produce as high a quality image as a 10 megapixel sensor in a full frame camera due to the better signal to noise ratio the larger photosites of the larger sensor. The reverse however is why a P & S can have a 500 mm equavelent lens in such a small package. It relates to the magnification the lens produces for each size of sensor BUT it's based on the old standards used with 35 mm film cameras.

In order to get the best detail from a photo it needs to be in focus with NO camera shake during the exposure, and at the lowest ISO that allows an acceptable shutter speed with an aperture around F8.0. Raising the ISO up from the camera's base setting is just like raising the volume on our old AM radios to sort of hear very distant stations at night. You could get the signal thanks to atmospheric bounce but it was weak & had static, so you turned the volume up, but that didn't remove the static & cameras have the same style of problem.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

GloriaS — Fri, 17 Jan 2014 02:49:02 GMT

Oh boy! I have read all the info on the link you sent to me. All new info for a beginner photographer. I do like the RAW vs JEPG explaination. Question: I have set RAW & JEPG on my camera which is a point and shoot with 50X zoom. Set on this for shooting with P, TV, AV and M modes. I have set my ISO to Auto for all modes. TV has 1/500, AV has F5.6, and Manual has 80 ISO, 1/500 and F5.6.

I do not know which settings right or wrong. Camera was a gift with no instructions.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

GloriaS — Fri, 17 Jan 2014 02:56:45 GMT

Thanks again! Good info to know as a learner. My point and shoot camera does have Image Stabilizer and I have that turned on.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

diverhank — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 23:17:40 GMT

Hi Gloria,

I just ran across your post hope it's not too late (since you may have already become an expert BIF shooter already :)). Shooting birds is also my passion. I now have a DSLR but I also started with a point and shoot. A P&S such as yours is very good for birds, especially if they are not moving fast. I find that the autofocus is simply too slow to catch birds in flight regularly.

Birds are generally too far away, requiring you to zoom in quite a bit. Even for optical zoom, the image will not be the clearest at high magnification. On top of that, motion blur and atmospheric effects (haze, smoke, etc.) will make the images a blurry mess. Here are my tips for razor sharp images. They are of equal importance, I simply list them as they come to mind, not by order of importance.

1. Get as close as possible so you zoom less. The less you zoom in the better the images will be.

2. Disable digital zoom, use only optical zoom. Digital zoom is horrible.

3. Brace yourself as much as possible. It's even better to use a monopod or tripod for anything that requires 10x zoom or more.

4. When handholding, take a deep breath and take the shot as you exhale...it minimizes shake.

5. Use manual or Tv mode, for zoom shots (5x to 50x), set the Tv to 1/1000 or faster when handholding. You can set Auto ISO for ease of use. In manual mode, set the Av to as high a value as the light permit (e.g. f/8 is better than f/4).

6. You mentioned white birds...you need to use exposure compensation to make the image darker by a stop, otherwise the white feathers will be solid white without any features. In reverse, for a dark bird, use the exposure compensation to make the image lighter by a stop.

Have fun and let me know if these help your shots.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

GloriaS — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 01:41:55 GMT

Hi diverhank,

Thank you so much for your suggestions. I have been trying different settings and, well, things don't seem to be improving.

I am still trying and not giving up.

Question: If I zoom less and crop to make the image larger, will the image be blurry? Also, I have heard that using Manual Mode, AV, etc. will use up my memory card really fast...true?

Some of the shots I've taken in other modes other than AUTO, I can't see or crop after I import them to my computer. How come?

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

cicopo — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 01:54:59 GMT

"Also, I have heard that using Manual Mode, AV, etc. will use up my memory card really fast...true?"

NOT TRUE.

What software do you use to open or edit your photos? If you shoot RAW it may not recognize the files but they should still get copied to your computer. Also are you using a Windows based computer or a Mac.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

diverhank — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:23:51 GMT

@GloriaS wrote:

1. Question: If I zoom less and crop to make the image larger, will the image be blurry? Also, I have heard that using Manual Mode, AV, etc. will use up my memory card really fast...true?

2. Some of the shots I've taken in other modes other than AUTO, I can't see or crop after I import them to my computer. How come?

#1. What I meant is for you to get as close to the bird as possible to fill the frame without having to zoom in. Some people stay far away from the birds (while they can physically get closer) and zoom in instead because they can (50X!!!). You should zoom as the last resort but it's still better than cropping the image to make it larger. You DO NOT want to crop to make the image larger. This is the same as digital zoom and it's horrible.

Using non-auto modes like M or Av, Tv will not use up your memory card any faster than auto mode.

#2. Not sure what the problem is. It is possible you have RAW selected. The computer file explorer may not recognize them. You need to use programs like the Canon DPP or Photoshop to see and edit them. Try to switch the camera to Jpeg and see if you can see and edit them when using other non-auto mode. You need to get off auto mode if you want to take good pictures of birds...you need control of the Tv...a high value of Tv alone will improve your zoomed in pictures significantly.

After you have tried my tips and others' herein and still don't get the results you want...you might want to invest in a good DSLR and good lenses...there is so much a P&S can do...there are exceptions of course but the bird pictures that make you go wow will most likely come from a DSLR and a good L lens.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

GloriaS — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:47:14 GMT

Hello Cicopo,

I have Windows Live Photo Gallery. The RAW, RAW/JEPG shots do get imported but are not recognized for cropping or editing.

Re: Discuss best settings for non-DSLR camera - Bird shots.

GloriaS — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 04:01:36 GMT

Thanks again, diverhank!

Bird photo examples that I have taken on 1/15/14.