topic Re: White Balance with Monochrome? in General Discussion

White Balance with Monochrome?

stevet1 — Wed, 27 Aug 2025 13:19:00 GMT

The other day, I ran across a reference from an author who said that he uses a certain Kelvin number when shooting Monochrome. Theoretically, it seems to me that it shouldn't make a difference.

Do you shoot Monochrome at a certain temperature?

Steve Thomas

Re: White Balance with Monochrome?

johnrmoyer — Wed, 27 Aug 2025 14:23:06 GMT

An assumption followed by a guess as to why it might make a difference.

Assuming auto metering is set in the camera, a different white balance might result in different metering. Since there are red, green, and blue filters on the photosites of the sensor and they measure different intensities, it is possible that a different color temperature setting will result in different automatic metering.

For the question about what I do, I shoot in color and convert the raw to monochrome in DPP or a JPEG or TIFF to monochrome in Gimp. I usually use auto metering and set picture style in camera to "standard" and white balance to "auto, white priority" or "auto". The raw file usually has enough extra bits compared to JPG that original white balance will not change the auto metering beyond the range of the raw file.

In 2007, I could not afford enough storage for raw and my camera saved only jpeg.

I made this photograph of an alignment of Megalithic monuments, a stone circle, a passage tomb, and the grave of Maeve at Knocknarea seen from Carrowmore, Sligo, IE, on April 25, 2007 using old technology. On Jul 26, 2025, I used gimp 3 to convert it to black and white.

EXIF:Camera	Make	Canon
EXIF:Camera	Model	Canon PowerShot A710 IS
EXIF:Camera	MaxApertureValue	2.8
EXIF:Camera	FocalLength	5.8 mm
EXIF:Image	FNumber	4.0
EXIF:Image	ISO	75
EXIF:Image	ShutterSpeedValue	1/403
EXIF:Image	ApertureValue	4.0
EXIF:Camera	ExposureMode	Auto
EXIF:Camera	DigitalZoomRatio	1
EXIF:Camera	SceneCaptureType	Standard
EXIF:Camera	Contrast	Normal
EXIF:Camera	Saturation	Normal
EXIF:Camera	Sharpness	Normal
EXIF:Image	Software	GIMP 3.0.4
EXIF:Image	ExifImageWidth	3072
EXIF:Image	ExifImageHeight	2304
EXIF:Time	CreateDate	2007:04:25 08:01:41
MakerNotes:Camera	ContinuousDrive	Single
MakerNotes:Camera	FocusMode	Single
MakerNotes:Camera	RecordMode	JPEG
MakerNotes:Camera	CanonImageSize	Large
MakerNotes:Camera	EasyMode	Full auto
MakerNotes:Camera	DigitalZoom	None
MakerNotes:Camera	CameraISO	Auto
MakerNotes:Camera	MeteringMode	Evaluative
MakerNotes:Camera	FocusRange	Auto
MakerNotes:Camera	AFPoint	Auto AF point selection
MakerNotes:Camera	CanonExposureMode	Easy
MakerNotes:Camera	ImageStabilization	On
MakerNotes:Camera	ZoomSourceWidth	3072
MakerNotes:Camera	ZoomTargetWidth	3072
MakerNotes:Camera	SpotMeteringMode	Center
MakerNotes:Camera	CanonModelID	PowerShot A710 IS
MakerNotes:Camera	AFAreaMode	Auto
MakerNotes:Camera	NumAFPoints	9
MakerNotes:Camera	ValidAFPoints	9
XMP:Unknown	Platform	Mac OS
XMP:Location	LocationShownCity	Sligo
XMP:Location	LocationShownCountryName	Ireland
XMP:Location	LocationShownProvinceState	County Sligo
XMP:Location	Country	Ireland
XMP:Location	State	County Sligo
XMP:Other	HistorySoftwareAgent	GIMP 3.0.4 (Mac OS)
Composite:Image	ImageSize	3072x2304
Composite:Image	LightValue	13.1
Composite:Image	Megapixels	7.1
Composite:Image	DOF	inf (1.00 m - inf)
Composite:Image	FOV	55.3 deg

In 2007 my web sever ran over low bandwidth copper wire ISDN. https://www.a-wee-bit-of-ireland.com/eire_2007/Knocknarea_1.html

Knocknarea. Queen Maeve (Medhbh), Goddess and mythical Queen of Connacht, is said to be buried in a mound on top of this hill. One of the famous stories about her is "The Cattle Raid of Cú Chulainn". This is said to have ended at Benbulben Mountain near Drumcliff.

Megalithic monuments were often aligned in a straight line.

Re: White Balance with Monochrome?

stevet1 — Wed, 27 Aug 2025 16:18:14 GMT

John,

That's a nice picture.

I tooka couple of shots at 3900K and a couple at 5400K.

I seemed to like the 3900K shots better, but I'm not sure why. They seemed a little richer. I need to some more experimentation.

Steve Thomas

Re: White Balance with Monochrome?

johnrmoyer — Wed, 27 Aug 2025 20:10:45 GMT

@stevet1 wrote:

John,

That's a nice picture.

I tooka couple of shots at 3900K and a couple at 5400K.

I seemed to like the 3900K shots better, but I'm not sure why. They seemed a little richer. I need to some more experimentation.

Steve Thomas

Thanks.

I am guessing that 3900K acts like applying a red filter. From a raw file it is possible to do the red filter in DPP as a software change instead of as a physical filter. In 2007, I did not have software that would do it so well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monolith,_the_Face_of_Half_Dome#Development_process_and_technique "Photographic emulsions are less sensitive to red light, so photos of reds are darker and underexposed.^[3] Adams decided to use a deep-red filter to transform the bright sky into a dark black background.^[3] The harsh tones and contrast between the white snow and black sky make smaller details more clear, and the eye is immediately drawn to the highlighted elements."

For some Canon cameras, it is possible to apply the red filter to the jpeg in the camera. For my camera, https://cam.start.canon/en/C003/manual/html/UG-03_Shooting-1_0160.html#Shooting-1_0160_2

With a filter effect applied to a monochrome image, you can make white clouds or green trees stand out more.

Filter	Sample Effects
N:None	Normal black-and-white image with no filter effects.
Ye:Yellow	Blue sky will look more natural, and white clouds will look crisper.
Or:Orange	The blue sky will look slightly darker. The sunset will look more brilliant.
R:Red	The blue sky will look quite dark. Fall leaves will look crisper and brighter.
G:Green	Skin tones and lips will appear muted. Green tree leaves will look crisper and brighter.

Note

Increasing [Contrast] will make the filter effect more pronounced.

Are using out of camera JPG files or raw files?

If raw files, then in Canon DPP software you have the same options to create monochrome as in the camera. The raw data can often be brightened or darkened 2 or 3 stops without clipping the data to compensate for any change in automatic metering caused by changing the color temperature. And, the dynamic range can be extended slightly by increasing what DPP calls the "input white level" from 0.0 to 2.0 in case some highlights were clipped.

If in DPP, one saves a 16 bit color TIF file from the raw, then one can de-saturate the colors in Gimp using a different method than the camera. One can also lighten or darken the image slightly. Gimp offers to highlight shadows for the monochrome result. After this, it seems wise to me to do an additional unsharp mask.

Re: White Balance with Monochrome?

stevet1 — Wed, 27 Aug 2025 21:29:40 GMT

John,

I just discovered that by using "Creative Assists" in the Playback menu, I can preview what the color picture would look like in Monochrome. That's pretty cool.

I shoot in CRAW these days, and for Monochrome, use the Orange filter most times.

Steve Thomas

Re: White Balance with Monochrome?

johnrmoyer — Wed, 27 Aug 2025 21:41:17 GMT

I found an example where I had used the red filter in Canon DPP software. I made this image with a nearly 45 year old vintage MC ROKKOR-X PG 1:1.4 f=50mm lens from a film camera and an Urth adapter on EOS R5. Since the lens has no electronics, it was all manual except shutter speed and ISO. https://www.rsok.com/~jrm/2021Jun06_birds_and_cats/2021jun05_storm_IMG_1702cv.html

There were storm clouds in Norman, Oklahoma, United States on June 5, 2021. I made this image with a nearly 45 year old vintage MC ROKKOR-X PG 1:1.4 f=50mm lens.

all edits done in DPP

ExifTool	ExifToolVersion	13.34
File:Other	FileName	IMG_1702.dr4
CanonVRD:Image	WhiteBalanceAdj	Shot Settings
CanonVRD:Image	MonochromeToningEffect	None
CanonVRD:Image	MonochromeFilterEffect	Red
CanonVRD:Image	UnsharpMaskStrength	2
CanonVRD:Image	UnsharpMaskFineness	2
CanonVRD:Image	UnsharpMaskThreshold	3
CanonVRD:Image	LuminanceNoiseReduction	0
CanonVRD:Image	ChrominanceNoiseReduction	0
CanonVRD:Image	ColorMoireReduction	2
CanonVRD:Image	ColorMoireReductionOn	No
CanonVRD:Image	GammaSaturation	0
CanonVRD:Image	GammaUnsharpMaskStrength	4
CanonVRD:Image	GammaUnsharpMaskFineness	2
CanonVRD:Image	GammaUnsharpMaskThreshold	3
CanonVRD:Image	GammaSharpnessStrength	4
CanonVRD:Image	GammaShadow	0
CanonVRD:Image	GammaHighlight	0
CanonVRD:Image	GammaBlackPoint	+0.000
CanonVRD:Image	GammaWhitePoint	+1.199
CanonVRD:Image	GammaMidPoint	+0.000
ExifTool	ExifToolVersion	13.34
File:Other	FileName	IMG_1702.CR3
MakerNotes:Camera	Quality	CRAW
MakerNotes:Camera	FocusMode	Manual Focus (3)
MakerNotes:Camera	RecordMode	CR3+JPEG
MakerNotes:Camera	CanonExposureMode	Aperture-priority AE
MakerNotes:Camera	Clarity	1
MakerNotes:Camera	CameraTemperature	32 C
MakerNotes:Camera	CanonFirmwareVersion	Firmware Version 1.3.1
MakerNotes:Camera	ShutterReleaseWithoutLens	Enable
MakerNotes:Camera	AddIPTCInformation	Enable
MakerNotes:Camera	MeasuredRGGB	467 1024 1024 679
MakerNotes:Camera	WB_RGGBLevelsAsShot	2093 1024 1024 1762
MakerNotes:Camera	ColorTempAsShot	5871
MakerNotes:Camera	WB_RGGBLevelsAuto	2093 1024 1024 1762
MakerNotes:Camera	ColorTempAuto	5871
MakerNotes:Image	MeasuredEV	12.88
MakerNotes:Image	MeasuredEV2	24.5
MakerNotes:Image	PictureStyle	Standard
EXIF:Image	ExposureTime	1/6400
EXIF:Image	ISO	320

Re: White Balance with Monochrome?

stevet1 — Thu, 28 Aug 2025 00:17:48 GMT

John,

You're in Georgetown? I'm not too far out of Evansville.

You ever been to Murphy' Camera in Louisville?

Steve

Re: White Balance with Monochrome?

johnrmoyer — Thu, 28 Aug 2025 01:55:48 GMT

@stevet1 wrote:

John,

You're in Georgetown? I'm not too far out of Evansville.

You ever been to Murphy' Camera in Louisville?

Steve

I am in Norman, Oklahoma, US

Re: White Balance with Monochrome?

stevet1 — Thu, 28 Aug 2025 13:50:05 GMT

John,

Sorry about that. I went to the web page you first listed and looked at all your pictures.That must have been the address of the pixels.com people.

Steve Thomas