topic Re: How far before it becomes trespassing? in General Discussion

How far before it becomes trespassing?

Tintype_18 — Sun, 03 Nov 2024 17:43:56 GMT

There was a discussion on a local forum. Seems a person was discovered setting up a tripod and camera on private property. The property owner asked what they were doing. The reply was taking photos of trees. Property owner was concerned they were taking pictures of their home.

Any community members have direction on this? Thanks.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

A_Random_Dude — Sun, 03 Nov 2024 17:50:16 GMT

I can only speak for myself, but I always attempt to stay off of private property. Even when I take a camera for a walk through my neighborhood to take pictures of flowers and birds, I try to never take a picture of anything readily identifiable as someone's address, particularly house numbers. I don't like having my own picture taken, so when I shoot, I try my hardest to not get random people in the photos, as I feel this is an invasion of privacy. (Even if many people voluntarily give up their own privacy by posting anything and everything on social media sites.)

It seems that in a case like this, it would make sense to try to get the property owner's permission. Don't know if that's a simplistic view or not.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

normadel — Sun, 03 Nov 2024 18:50:50 GMT

Was the owner concerned about you being on his property, or just taking pix of his house?

First one is easy....don't go on his property.

Second one....off his property, you can take a picture of his house, but what you are doing with it is the issue. For your own private viewing, who's to know. But if it's for some public use, get permission. And if he asks you not to take pix at all, you should honor his request.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

Tronhard — Sun, 03 Nov 2024 21:36:25 GMT

This is both a issue of engagement and law.

Good practice would suggest contacting the owner of the property if they are visible first to explain the purpose, and gaining their engagement and permission, especially if the intent is to actually encroach within their legal boundaries. However, even if not doing that, making contact and saying things like 'your house has striking architectural value that I would love to capture, I will not identify the location'. Explain that the intent of the shot, invite the owner to be there, and also offer them a copy of the images. The hearts and minds approach.

Laws on trespass vary according to where you are. For example, there a numerous laws in the UK to permit 'Rambling', that is the use of pastoral land to pass through without permission, and often people take photos or videos of the scenery. Mind you, rocking up to someone's private residence and shooting away in their garden would likely not be covered by that. Other jurisdictions have much tighter laws.

As @Normandel said, one can avoid trespass by not encroaching on the property and there is likely to be no legal repercussion if the photo is for private use and they are unaware. Exceptions to that would be areas for military or other security agencies that will likely be watching you and your activities!

It seems to me the best policy is to be proactive and to get the permission of the land-owner. Treat them with the consideration one would like to receive.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

Tintype_18 — Sun, 03 Nov 2024 23:24:35 GMT

There wasn't anything that the photographer said that related to photographing the person's house. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. I have a book on photographing various places in the USA. Lexington, Kentucky is the center for thoroughbred race horses. Horse farms are world famous with beautiful manicured fields and immaculate buildings. This book did issue a warning: fences and fields are OK but to photograph horses, barns and buildings are not permitted without written permission. It went on to say that some farms host a time to give photographers access to the farm.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

normadel — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 02:19:24 GMT

Tintype_18 specifically said: "Property owner was concerned they were taking pictures of their home."

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

Tronhard — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 05:40:10 GMT

I gather the original issue was "a person was discovered setting up a tripod and camera on private property". Whether that is to photograph a tree or a house is rather beside the point. They are apparently ON private property and therefore subject to the laws of the local jurisdiction of trespass. People get territorial of their land - the old adage about a person's home being their castle has a strong basis in human territorial behaviour.

Personally, as I said, I would proactively engage with the owner and bring them into the process to get their permission, or use a longer FL lens and shoot from outside their boundary, which would not break any law as such, but might still elicit a debate as to intent and still avoidable with some tact.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

Ron888 — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 07:50:24 GMT

Personally i wouldnt cross any obvious property lines.If there's no fence or obvious line i wouldn't feel bad taking some pictures.But i'd be ready to apologize,show the pictures and move on. I mention showing the pictures because that disarms the vast majority of people

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

Tintype_18 — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 14:05:15 GMT

The person in question was obviously trespassing as permission to enter wasn't given. Showing the property owner the pictures would disarm any question of the person's house. We have some beautiful trees showing fall colors in our neighborhood. A picture of a tree could be taken without any identifying landmarks to pinpoint the location.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

John_SD — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 16:13:49 GMT

"Any community members have direction on this?"

Yes. Personally, I don't trespass on private property to take photos, admire the scenery, pluck a few flowers, catch of few z's under the shade tree, plop down to have my lunch, or help myself to a sip of water at the hose bib. Beyond common sense, common courtesy dictates that you stay off the property of others. And no, it isn't courtesy to set up your gear on private property first, and then ask permission when the owner comes out to confront you. YMMV.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

A_Random_Dude — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 16:41:32 GMT

There's a good bit of psychology in play here as well. In recent times, I've been privileged to tour Fort Sumter in South Carolina, and Arlington National Cemetery in Washington DC. In each case, the guests are requested to remember that they are on hallowed ground, and to please behave in an appropriate manner. Unfortunately, in these days of selfies and living for upvotes and likes on social media, what used to be normal good manners are fast becoming extinct. As an example, at Fort Sumter, the guides specifically ask people to stay off of, and not to touch, the various cannons on display throughout the grounds. Yet I witnessed plenty of parents watching as their children climbed all over the cannons, and in some instances even putting the children on the cannons themselves so that they could take pictures. At Arlington, the vast majority of people showed the proper respect during the Changing of the Guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, but there were the inevitable fools who did not show that respect, and who seemed to think the entire ceremony was no different than a street busker playing for donations.

Is it a case of, "Oh, those rules don't apply to me"? Or is it pure cluelessness? I'm of a generation (I'm 61) that was taught to follow rules, look but don't touch, keep your hands to yourself, etc. It's simple courtesy that keeps me from barging into someone's yard to get a closeup of a goldfinch or cardinal. If the owner was there and I asked if I could get a bit closer that's one thing (this has actually happened several times; I've discovered that walking around with a big camera and lens can be quite a conversation starter), but I'd never presume to do that otherwise. In these divided days, where everybody has a beef about something, I do find that applying the Golden Rule is a good idea.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

Tintype_18 — Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:50:31 GMT

We have Artificial Intelligence but sorely lacking in common sense. Look at the videos of people and the wildlife in the Yellowstone NP. One fellow fell into a hot pool. They found his wallet and jeans.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

A_Random_Dude — Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:56:08 GMT

Yep. The Darwin Awards can't keep up with all of the people who do themselves in in search of that perfect selfie. While it's sad of course when something happens like that, all I can do is shake my head, because as you said, common sense has gone the way of the dinosaurs.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

Tintype_18 — Wed, 06 Nov 2024 14:27:34 GMT

One person said they would take the camera inside and delete the photos then call the cops. I told her the cops would arrest her for theft. Also, trying to take someone's camera could be hazardous to your health.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

A_Random_Dude — Wed, 06 Nov 2024 14:30:19 GMT

I here you there, man. Do NOT touch my gear.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

justadude — Fri, 15 Nov 2024 15:04:57 GMT

Laws vary around the world for private property. Common courtesy does not vary. Here in the U.S. you need permission to step on private property in general. What that means is if you are going to knock on someone's door for anything, obviously you don't need permission. But to go on their property for purposes of your own (such as taking photos) you do need permission in advance. If the property owner is not home, well, you didn't get permission then. However... from the street, you CAN take a photo of a person's property since it is in public view. But that's where common courtesy kicks back in.

Perfect example would be driving down a country road and seeing an old barn near the side of the road, away from the house. By law you can take a photo from the road. Common courtesy says if you see people out in the yard, ask first. If you don't see anyone around, that's your choice if you are just shooting as a hobby. But if you are planning on selling the photos, then you need permission.

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

A_Random_Dude — Fri, 15 Nov 2024 16:24:03 GMT

Well put. It's a shame that common courtesy, much like common sense, is very uncommon these days...

PS: Pentax Spotmatic and K1000? That is AWESOME. My dad took incredible photos with his Spotmatic, and the K1000 was my first SLR. Great memories there!

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

justadude — Fri, 15 Nov 2024 17:38:24 GMT

Pentax... I was just gifted another K1000 yesterday, but this one is the SE version. Just loaded a roll which I plan to shoot today, and develop later tonight. Looking forward to using this version!

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

Tronhard — Fri, 15 Nov 2024 19:07:25 GMT

Hi Gary:
Glad you are getting into the film medium.
Did you mean to publish this under trespassing? Using film is a worthy topic for its own thread!

Re: How far before it becomes trespassing?

justadude — Fri, 15 Nov 2024 20:47:09 GMT

Simply replying to the gentleman above who commented on one of the film cameras I have listed in my signature.

...and I've been getting into the film medium ever since my teens in the 1970's. 🙂

Enjoy your day, Trevor!