topic Re: DSLR NOOB in General Discussion

DSLR NOOB

jordo — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 03:38:50 GMT

I have a camera gig lined up for shooting video for xtreme sport type events and I am looking to get my first DSLR camera. I have experience with other camera types like AF100, P2, and Black magic cameras but never really used a DSLR. So I was wondering what lenses would be good to shoot this type of video and what body I should start out with. I was looking at the 70D but may just start with a t3i and go from there.

Thanks in advance!

Re: DSLR NOOB

ScottyP — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 09:37:27 GMT

It would be hard to recommend a T3i for shooting video over a 70d, particularly for fast extreme sports. The improved focus in live view/video mode in the 70d makes it the clear choice for the relatively low price differential.

As for lenses, I hope for the sake of your budget your sports take place outdoors in bright sunlight?

Re: DSLR NOOB

jordo — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 11:29:28 GMT

The majority of the stuff will be outside so I am thankful for that. So if I grab the 70D what would you propose as a good (budget) starter lens for that type of shoot.

Re: DSLR NOOB

ebiggs1 — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 15:37:51 GMT

If your main most important goal is video, you don't want a DSLR. DSLR's are still cameras that happen to do video.

They are not video cameras.

You want a real video camera. A top-of-the-line Canon is the C300 at $14,000. A more affordable, not guessing your budget, is the C100. They are around 5 grand. Neither comes with a lens.

Video cameras do not suffer from the length or time restrictions that any DSLR you buy will.

Re: DSLR NOOB

Skirball — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 16:34:07 GMT

Welcome to the internet, where everybody needs to start with top of the line equipment.

Get a T3i, you can get them for quite cheap these days. I've seen them refurbished, direct from Canon with warranty, for $300+. The T3i has been a popular camera with videographers for some time, and it's still perfectly capable for someone who is learning to use as their tool. I'd bet there are still some reasonably advanced videographers that pull theirs out on occasion.

Use your extra money, if you have any, for glass. You'll want a decent lens, or two. But don't worry about starting small, you'll just learn to use what you have better.

There's nothing wrong with learning on a beginners setup, despite what the internet says. Nor is there anything wrong with using a dSLR for video. You're learning, you don't need a C300. Hell, there are full-length feature films that have been shot on dSLR. And they're used all the time in scenes for... wait for it... action shots. Because they're small and cheap and people can attach them to a side of a car for a chase and not worry if it gets destroyed.

Re: DSLR NOOB

jordo — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 21:24:10 GMT

ya my budget is no where near 5k, thats why I am choosing something smaller and cheap (DSLR). If I end up with a t3i or 70D what lenses would you recommend for action sports such as motorcross.

Re: DSLR NOOB

slikhyani — Fri, 20 Jun 2014 06:36:12 GMT

See if you're Price concerned then only you should pick the T3i and i personally don't use it for event or sport video shooting. It is a decent DSLR So it is not that recommended for Video shoot. On the other hand 70 D is much better in all aspects of shooting. So, if money is not the concerned here then you should probably go with 70D

Re: DSLR NOOB

ebiggs1 — Fri, 20 Jun 2014 11:58:11 GMT

Maybe the Canon XA10 HD Professional Camcorder is a better choice for you at $1500. It is a true video camera and it comes with a 30-300mm equiv. lens. If video is your main most thing, this camera will not suffer the problems the T3i will. It is ready to go right from the box. However, it is not a still camera.

Re: DSLR NOOB

TCampbell — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 00:42:06 GMT

What sets the 70D apart from other DSLRs is the dual-pixel auto-focus system.

A typically DSLR has dedicate AF sensors and these are usually in the floor of the camera... not on the sensor. When the reflex mirror the down position, it bounces the optical path up into the viewfinder -- but it does have some semi-transparent areas through which some light actually bounces down into the AF sensors which use prism to split light into two phases. The camera is able to detect focused distance to an object based on the phase. This is a very fast focus system BUT... it requires that a mirror is bouncing light into the dedicated sensors.

When you shoot video, this is a problem for most cameras because the reflex mirror has to be out of the way so the sensor can capture the video... thus the really fast and accurate focus system cannot be used. Instead the cameras use "contrast" detect auto-focus. I always use an anology of a barcode pattern. Image a white background with black stripes. If the barcode is focused then every point in the image is either a "black" pixel or a "white" pixel and at the edge of a stripe you've got a black pixel next to a white pixel (very high contrast). But if it's out of focus, the black stripes in the barcode will have soft fuzzy edges... part white, part black -- and appearing as some shade of gray. If you were to inspect each pixel in a row, you'd have black pixels next to dark gray pixels which are in turn next to medium gray, then light gray, and ultimately white. In other words the contrast between each adjacent pixel isn't very much. When the contrast ix very strong the camera knows the image is focused. This is a very accurate focus system... but also very slow. The phase detect system can instantly tell which direction and how far it needs to move focus to snap a subject to tack sharp fcous. But the contrast system has to "hunt" for focus through trial and error. It's a terrible system if you need to focus in a hurry (and the reason why people with point & shoot cameras complain that they press a shutter button and there's a long delay before the camera takes the image.)

All this was true... until the 70D came along.

Canon has had a few cameras where they've toyed with improved ways to do on-sensor auto-focus that would be faster than the contrast-detect system. The 70D has their best system to date and it's actually pretty good. Their new dual-pixel CMOS AF system is actually pretty fast and accurate. No other DSLR has anything like it.

The advice of using a real video camera for video is VERY good advice. Video cameras are designed for this. But the 70D has a continuous AF system while shooting video that rivals what you can do with a video camera -- and of course you get the ability to change lenses. Canon's Cinema EOS gear is fantastic... but very expensive.

If you're buying a DSLR with the primary goal of shooting video and can't afford a $5000 cinema camera then I'd go with the 70D. The T3i is not going to have the focus performance unless you can pre-plan the focus and focus manually -- not very practical for action sports because you don't get to pre-plan focus.

You'll want fast focusing lenses (fast motors). The USM focus motors (UltraSonic Motors) are the fastest. The STM motors (Stepper Motors) are also pretty quick (and very quiet). The standard motors (neither USM nor STM) are pretty slow -- so avoid those for action sports.

Re: DSLR NOOB

jordo — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 02:02:19 GMT

Most of these responses are making the decision harder 😛 (which is expected). I am now considering the 60D. Someone has just the body used for 500 on a local ad and I'm curious if that's a possible good deal?

Re: DSLR NOOB

ebiggs1 — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 12:12:58 GMT

$450 for a body only would look better to me. But $500 isn't too bad for a really nice one.

Re: DSLR NOOB

jordo — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 15:38:48 GMT

I can grab the 60D body for 450, or spend the money and grab the 70D new. Is the difference between the two cameras big enough to justify spending the extra $800 dollars?

Re: DSLR NOOB

TCampbell — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 17:02:29 GMT

Just to be clear ... the 60D does not have continuous auto-focus when shooting video. You either have to manually focus -or- you can press the focus button when you want to re-focus (I think that's mapped to the asterisk button on the back of the camera when you are shooting in video mode) and it will "hunt" for focus (and yes... it will be noticeable in the video that the camera is guessing it's way toward better focus.)

The 70D does have continuous auto-focus when shooting video. Since the 70D has Canon's new technology which provides "phase detect" style auto-focus on the sensor, the camera can do continuous auto-focus while shooting video and it does not have to do focus-hunt (where it makes a focus adjustment guess and analyzes to see if it got better or worse... then iterate through a few more guesses to refine focus - which is a slow focusing method.)

When shooting action... things are passing you by. If the camera can't respond quickly enough then the moment is lost.

I don't know what YOU specifically shoot and or if it's even possible to pre-plan focus... sometimes it is (e.g. suppose you're covering an event where the athletes are doing a jump and you can pre-focus on the jump ramp... you know the distance so you can establish that before they approach the target area.) But for any "action" photography where you can't control the shooting circumstances and simply have to react... I know I'd prefer the 70D or a true video camera.

Re: DSLR NOOB

ebiggs1 — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:31:29 GMT

Do or did you say you have a lens for this new purchase? If not you still need to buy a sutible lens as some of the DSLR lenses are not very good in many ways. Focus id one.

Maybe the Canon XA10 HD Professional Camcorder is a better choice for you at $1500. It will do video way better than the DSLR will. Plus if you need a lens or you need to replace a lens, the price may not be all that out of line. The Canon XA10 HD Professional Camcorder will not suffer from the other ills of a DSLR shooting video either.

Re: DSLR NOOB

jordo — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 02:32:17 GMT

I think I'm going to go with the 70D. So now I just need a solid all round lens to start.

Re: DSLR NOOB

MikeSowsun — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:18:56 GMT

I would get the kit lens that comes with the 70D. Either the 18-55 STM or 18-135 STM so you can fully take advantage of the added AF capability that STM gives you on the 70D.

(B&H Photo prices) B&H Photo 70D

$999 70D body only

$1149 70D witn 18-55 STM

$1349 70D with 18-135 STM

The 18-135 STM is a very good lens and a bargain when purchased in the kit.

If you need a wider angle lens, the 10-18 STM would be a good choice.

Re: DSLR NOOB

jordo — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 23:02:45 GMT

Went with the canon 70D + 18-135mm kit lens 🙂