topic Megapixel gap running 2 bodies in General Discussion

Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

KennyRay — Tue, 21 Jan 2020 17:51:49 GMT

Hey folks! Of you that are running 2 bodies on a project, are you shooting 2 different megapixel boxes? If so, what are the advantages/pitfalls? For example, using the higher res exclusively for longer lenses for possible cropping but less MP for shorter and wide angle....

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

cicopo — Tue, 21 Jan 2020 18:01:19 GMT

If I can fill the frame any of the bodies I have will be fine, however if I'm going to need to crop the more megapixels I have the better my end result will be. My 1D2n still gets used because of this concept. (1Ds2, 1D4, 7D2).

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

wq9nsc — Tue, 21 Jan 2020 18:12:27 GMT

I don't think there is a single answer to this because it is so dependent upon what you are trying to accomplish.

Most of my photography is sports related and normally I shoot with both a 1DX and 1DX 2 with different lens setups for close and distant action but these two cameras have very similar sensor size/resolution. But tonight I am going to throw a third camera in the mix briefly for basketball just to try something different and will shoot a few using a 5DS R with a 24-70 F2.8 lens for some different shot angles to see if I like the results.

Possible benefits will be either the ability to crop more aggressively or to have more detail in a wide angle view with multiple players and if the results are at all compelling I will try it again to give the 5DS R a fair chance after I get used to it. Right now it feels like a toy with a 24-70 2.8 lens mounted since I usually have a 200 F2 or 300 F2.8 on the 1DX 2 and a 70-200 F2.8 on the 1DX 🙂

If you aren't doing fast action photography, then I would use your "normal" size sensor camera and fill the sensor area to the extent that the layout of the scene allows. If you need detailed large prints, then the higher MP camera comes into its own but it also creates big file sizes. My 1DX 2 RAW files average 24-26 Mb in size while the test shots I did this morning with the 5DS R range from 62 to 75 Mb and even with a fast workstation the change in processing speed is noticeable when working with those big files.

Rodger

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

Waddizzle — Wed, 22 Jan 2020 13:05:19 GMT

I think there is far more to it than sheer MP count. The camera body must judged as whole, as well as the task that you set before it.

For example, I would rather use my 16MP 1D4 for shooting sports and wildlife than my 24MP M3.

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

KennyRay — Wed, 22 Jan 2020 13:20:53 GMT

Thanks, Waddizzle. Care to elaborate a bit...?

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

Waddizzle — Wed, 22 Jan 2020 13:40:16 GMT

@KennyRay
What is there to elaborate on? There is a world of difference between the two camera bodies beginning with their frame rates of continuous shooting.

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

ebiggs1 — Wed, 22 Jan 2020 17:20:43 GMT

"... are you shooting 2 different megapixel boxes?"

Yes almost every single time. I do have a preference of which lens I use on certain bodies. It is because of sensor size thgouh and not MP count. Megapixels are another greatly misunderstood camera spec. If I compared my 1Ds Mk III to my 1DX the MP would hardly be noticeable.

How you intend on using your work is far more important than MP count. If it is a FB u/l any darn camera will do just fine. Even a smartphone! If it is a nice 11x14" art photo of a bride, yeah, I am going to want my best camera.

Another point is newer tech, meaning newer sensors, is going to trump more MP from older cameras. Every time! The bottom line is not just how many MP do I have.

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

wq9nsc — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 14:33:27 GMT

One difference I quickly noticed when working with a "high megapixel" camera is that when doing a fast review of the images after shooting, some of the images I would have quickly rejected from the other cameras are OK images once you account for the size and potential resolution difference from a camera with 2.5X the number of pixels as the other camera. So I have to take a much closer look at the images from the 5DS R before rejecting them.

I am still learning whether the 5DS R has any place for me in sports shooting. In comparison to the 1DX and 1DX 2 bodies, it is at a clear disadvantage in terms of low light sensor noise performance and AF speed. I have now casually shot two basketball games with it as a third camera in the mix, the first was with a 24-70 F2.8 which produced a few OK images and last night I tried my inexpensive 85 F1.8 on it (set at F2) and was a bit happier with the results. But to be fair to it, I am going to try part of a game with the 200MM F2 on it and see what that adds or detracts from the mix.

For a bit of data, I casually shot a freshman B-ball game last night while talking soccer with some of the players about the upcoming season so I wasn't focused on the game as much as I should have been. I took 36 exposures with the 5DS R and kept 7 as being usable. I took another 181 between the 1DX and 1DX 2 bodies and uploaded 74 of those for the players and their families to share. All three camera were set to manual exposure (F2 @ 1/640 for the 1DX 2, F2.8 @ 1/500 for the 1DX, and F1.8 - F2 mostly at 1/500 for the 5DS R) all set for auto ISO to let sensor speed float based upon lighting across the court. All three cameras were all in single shot drive mode to cut down on the number of images I had to review set to servo AF mode Case 4 with a single point selected.

I got home from the game around 8:30, did a quick and dirty post using only DPP (custom recipe along with cropping and sometimes slight exposure adjustment for individual images) and had them processed and uploaded in under an hour after I got home. This will probably be the only freshman game I shoot this season so I kept some images I would normally discard in order for each player to be featured in a few and many imgaes would definitely benefit from additional post but lots of time is one thing I don't have for the next few days. I also had a "hot" pixel pop up in a few of my 1DX photos so I will activate its sensor cleaning process so that it will append this data before its next use. The 1DX has been a great body and continues to work very well.

Not sure if the forum removes links but here is the freshman boys smugmug link, I will probably do additional post work on some of these later for some of my former soccer players who unfortunately gave up soccer for basketball 😞

https://rodgersingley.smugmug.com/Freshman-Baskeball-January-22/n-Khgb82

Rodger

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

ebiggs1 — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 15:20:58 GMT

Rodger you got some nice shots there and I bet the parents will be thrilled. A lot of this is a once in a life time thing. But the shallow DOF from the fast aperture teles sure is apparent in some. BTW, I think you might want to try using the high speed shooting mode. It might help eliminate that odd hand in front of the face, ball in the wrong spot, etc. type things.

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

wq9nsc — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 15:25:59 GMT

Thanks Ernie and I will be using high speed drive for the varsity game next Tuesday but I knew that I will be spending a lot of time with a paid consulting project over the next few days so I wasn't going to have hours to spend going through a lot of images. With any luck this project will be finished over the weekend and I can go back to retirement 🙂

I am pretty good at triggering single shots from the 1 series bodies in high speed drive mode when I am fully focused on the game but I knew that wouldn't be the case last night with lots of people distracting me. The varsity game is a bit more serious.

Rodger

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

ebiggs1 — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 15:47:42 GMT

"...I wasn't going to have hours to spend going through a lot of images"

Been there done that! They are lucky to have you. I have had so many parents tell me how greatful and nice it was to get shots of their kids. Shots they couldn't get. They don't have the freedom of the school that I get. One time shots. But that makes it all worth it.

I still get requests for photos years after the student is gone. You are likely to get such requests too. Although the scrapbook craze is largely dying down, still some do it. I often wonder why the parent didn't just keep the photo but that is a fact of life with digital. What do you do with it? How do you keep them?

I got a request just last week for photos that I shot over six years ago! One time I got a tearful request from a bride for photos of her wedding that I shot more than 10 years ago. Sadly their house burned down and they lost almost everything including the wedding album. I was able to reconstruct it for her. Not often but it happens. My reason for telling these stories is make sure you have a way to keep and save these photos. You just may need them again one day. Most of what you shoot becomes trash as time goes by but .......................ya never know.

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

wq9nsc — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 16:08:52 GMT

Ernie,

Archival storage is an ongoing issue. I first started shooting soccer back in 2007 and branched out from there in later years so there are a lot of images from over the years. For games and other occasions where my daughter is involved, I have a triple backup with one backup set at home, another in a bank, and a third with a friend who also does photography. For stuff involving Anna, I keep the original RAW files plus any JPG files created from them.

For the other photos, I have a backup here and one stored with a friend but for those I am primarily keeping JPG files. Finding a file without a known date or at least date range would be nearly impossible because I archive by year with sub-directories by shooting date.

I have thought about cloud storage but initial upload is time consuming since I don't have fiber optic speed here and more importantly cloud storage is very dependent upon the behavior of the corporation so even if I decide to start using it in the future it will be just one part of a redundant backup.

Rodger

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

cicopo — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 16:28:31 GMT

I also can't upload to a cloud nor would I. I've got several sets of BU Hard drives & a separate storage building I keep some of them in. It's a safe environment but I keep the hard drives in Pelican cases and the family sets are in Fire Safes as well. 11 years of RC Events have now been donated to the non profir organization that sanctions them & insures us as members. Where possible I gave them the low res on line versions & the high res originals. That's something in the range of 25,000 images plus their low res versions. They were organized by year using the event name rather than date. Now when I die those files will live on as our Zones history.

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

ebiggs1 — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 17:30:06 GMT

Wow, I don't take as great of care as either of you two guys. I have five 2 TB external HDs. I keep adding or updating capacity it seems. But at this pint in my life, retirement, my system has worked. I actually only guarantee storage for 6 months. That's all I ever did but as shown I have them a whole lot longer. I also store by date. If you don't know the date of the photo good luck in finding them.

I have told several mother's they are welcome to come over and go through any and all photos. A couple have but not many are willing to do so. If I did the searching even though it is minor it would take up a lot of my time.

I have three 2 TB HDs in my computer. One stores current projects, yearbook is coming up, and one is given to PS and LR exclusively. PS and LR love a lot of real estate..

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

wq9nsc — Fri, 24 Jan 2020 17:25:40 GMT

Ernie,

I take a LOT of care with family photos but not nearly as much with other photos and at some point I will delete everything more than a few years old except for family stuff which stays on different storage. Backup is a pain and finding backed up images is more of a pain.

Sports photos, unless they have the date, is going to be a problem unless it is one of the few games that I clearly remembered. This past summer, the incredibly talented head coach of a nearby Catholic high school spent a lot of time working on soccer skills with my daughter and one of his students he was preparing for her first year of college soccer. He wouldn't let me pay him so I volunteered to shoot a couple of his boys games and really enjoyed watching his kids in action. He and his players I will remember, but most other games just run together and I might remember a shot but unless I remember the opposing team and can find it from the schedule I won't waste time looking for a photo.

These two images were from one of the games I shot when Anna and I attended as guests of his high school and it was probably the most fun I have ever had watching any school play soccer. Non-stop action combined with a group of players who really adored the game and their coach, it doesn't get any better than that combination for high school sports!

Rodger

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

ebiggs1 — Fri, 24 Jan 2020 17:42:34 GMT

I just got a 4TB external HD and put 1262 folders on it. If each folder has a hundred photos in it, that's a lot of photos. Do the math!

Truth be known when I am gone nobody is going to want any of that. And, nobody is going to want to go through it if they did.

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

ebiggs1 — Fri, 24 Jan 2020 17:43:03 GMT

Oh, BTW, those are great shots!

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

wq9nsc — Fri, 24 Jan 2020 17:52:56 GMT

Thanks Ernie! I really had fun at that game.

We arrived early and Anna provided some kicks to help their goalie warm up. At one point during warm up she sneezed and the keeper ran up to her and asked, "are you OK dear?" and that was the only time I have ever seen my daughter blush 🙂 I was laughing so hard I didn't get a photo of the encounter and Anna is probably very happy that I didn't.

It is a really nice school and sports program with a great group of young men.

And I think one of Murphy's laws is that if you have 1 million files, only one of them is what the clients wants months later and that will be the only corrupted file on the entire backup device 😞

Rodger

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

wq9nsc — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 01:21:47 GMT

And a major reason I love shooting high school sports is you can always count on some interesting images. Last night was the basketball game between two high schools from 70 miles apart but united by both using a Spartan as their mascot. The schools work together for that game to raise funds for the St. Jude Children's Research hospital and they put in a lot of effort. Basketball is still a big part of the evening but not the only part.

I wasn't planning to attend because my daughter is in Chicago for a speech tournament so I was planning on a relaxing weekend but got a call a short time before the evening started to see if I could be there. So I did an impromptu group shot between the JV and Varsity games of all of the student athletes and cheerleaders from both schools wearing their St. Jude shirts. I got a lot of fun photographs but my favorite was one of our young men going up for a shot and it looked like he was being lifted into place by one of his opponents 🙂

And I HATE doing large group shots but especially when I only get a few minutes notice AND there was only 60 seconds to get everyone together and take the shot before the players had to change and resume play. They had already decided on the layout so about all I had to do was decide on settings and push a button. I wasn't happy with it but the school is and in this case I will just go with it is the thought that counts when you get two competing high schools to work together on the same good project.

Rodger

Re: Megapixel gap running 2 bodies

ebiggs1 — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 15:34:49 GMT

Rodger you know there is always a critic in the audience!

I do large groups all the time. Always under a short time constraint. Just the way it is. However, one thing you can do to make your shots better is to make sure you are in the exact center of the group and you are perpendicular to that group. You may not have complete control over the large group but you do have complete control over you. Its not that you shot or anybodies shot isn't good. No, not at all. It's when you compare the two shots, one done as I suggest and the other not, you say, boy, this one is better. Perhaps you don't even now why, it just looks better.

Most of the time people are so glad to get any shot they are happy. But that little extra effort is what gets you the reputation and the next job.