topic Re: Camera for a beginner in General Discussion

Camera for a beginner

RLL39 — Tue, 18 Oct 2016 06:40:41 GMT

Looking to buy a canon camera bundle for a beginner on a budget of $600. Interest in landscape/wildlife photography but since I'm just beginning that might change. So what's a good all around camera for a newbie?

Re: Camera for a beginner

ScottyP — Tue, 18 Oct 2016 10:02:20 GMT

Hi,

for your budget I'd get the Rebel T6 with 18-55 kit lens bundle for $499.99. Then I'd probably add a 55-250 zoom lens for the wildlife. This will be like $700. What sort of wildlife though?

Avoid the $600.00 kit that comes with the lens from the bundle above plus a 75-300 kit lens because the 75-300 is perhaps Canon's poorest lens from both image quality and build quality.

Re: Camera for a beginner

ebiggs1 — Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:19:02 GMT

"Hi,

for your budget I'd get the Rebel T6 with 18-55 kit lens bundle for $499.99."

I am good with this suggestion but not so much on the 55-250mil. Depending on what type 'wildlife' is the subject, 250mm is really too short (focal length). Unless you shoot wildlife at the zoo a 400mm lens is really the short end (again focal length). Even on a crop camera like the T6, 300mm should be the shortest you consider.

There is a real inexpensive manual 400mm pre-set 400mm lens made. It comes under various brand names but is the same lens. Such as Soligor, Paragon, Sirius, Ensinor, Quantaray, Optomax, Kenlock, Praotor, Hanimex, etc. It is a manual lens but this is how you really learn to be a photographer. The kit Scott recommended and the Sologor 400mm will still make your $600 budget. Maybe enough left over for lunch.

Another though, there are some good used gears out there. However, there is nothing like new!

Re: Camera for a beginner

RLL39 — Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:21:41 GMT

Thanks for answering! As far as wildlife goes, I don't really have anything specific at the moment. I live in Arizona. Landscape might be more of what I take. I was looking at the rebel t6 vs t5i. I could probably swing $700 so Is there a certain l lense for landscape I should go for?

Re: Camera for a beginner

ebiggs1 — Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:39:23 GMT

The "Rebel T6 with 18-55 kit lens bundle for $499.99" will work fine for most of the general photography you will normally do. That's why Canon selected it for the kit. I would opt for the T6 over the T5i. The more specialized part of photograapy like wildlide requires special lenses.

The ef-s 18-55mm lens supplied with the kit can not do this.

This is a Kingfisher was shot with the Sologor 400mm f6.3 lens. As you might guess the distance from the small bird is fairly great. At the same distance using the 18-55mil kit lens you could barely tell there was a bird in the photo!

This is shot with a lens similar to the 18-55mil at the 18mm side.

This shot was at the longer end of a 18-55mm lens.

Hope this gives you and idea of what you can expect. Remember the beauty of a DSLR is the fact you can change and use different lenses. You can pick the lens best suited for the task at hand. One lens can not do everything but the 18-55 zoom is pretty versatile. Especially for beginners.

Re: Camera for a beginner

RLL39 — Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:50:22 GMT

Thanks! That sounds like a good place to start!

Re: Camera for a beginner

RLL39 — Tue, 18 Oct 2016 15:59:04 GMT

One last question. Is there a big performance difference between a t6i and a t6?

Re: Camera for a beginner

ebiggs1 — Tue, 18 Oct 2016 21:51:02 GMT

No not really if you don't consider the extra features it has. All camera/lens combos have their limits. Even my multi-thousand dollar 1 series camera and "L" series lens has a limit to what it can do. However, a great deal of this depends on talent. A cheapo DSLR in the right hands can make beautiful photos. A $10,000 camera in a snap shooter's hands won't do any better than the T6 you are considering.

That said and understood, if you can spring for the T6i, I would. It does have some worthwhile features. Still the bottom line is you. You need to learn it. You need to learn how to post process it.

I have done DSLR 101 classes for a long time and I am always amazed at what some of the folks do. What you put in is what you will get out. GIGO, right?

Re: Camera for a beginner

Tronhard — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 04:42:40 GMT

Personally I would consider a second-hand or refurbished camera. Body prices drop fairly quickly from new. When you buy into a camera brand you buy into a system, that is to say you are more likely to upgrade using the same brand rather than switch to another. At this stage in your photographic journey I suggest you start modestly and work on technique, which is separate from the technology. Better equipment does not make you a better photographer, learning to use what you have to the best of your ability, and taking lots of images and critiquing them vigorously will.

Bodies change with frequent regularity, but lenses not so much. For that reason I would suggest paying more attention to a good lens and consider a second-hand body. If you want a good step up from the standard kit lens I would suggest one of two options:

The Canon 15-85mm IS EF-S USM lens is a great unit and you may be able to pick up a refurbished one for a reasonable price. At the wide angle end the extra 3deg is a great blessing and is a very sharp unit.

The Canon 18-135mm IS EF-S STM USM lens is another great walk-around lens. Same principle apples to looking for a good used or refurbished unit.

It is also worth noting that unless you want to go to a full-frame (a much more expensive investment) then you will be getting a camera with a crop sensor. Canon's APS-C(rop) sensor is reduced by a factor of 1.6 compare to the full frame. It sees less of the image than a full-frame unit and that has what is often called a "magnifying effect" on the field of view, or effective focal length.

When you look at the numbers displayed on any lens, they are given in terms of what a full-frame camera would read. Thus, because you are using a lens on a crop-frame camera you need to mulitply both the focal lengths and the f-number by that factor (1.6). Thus a camera with a theoretical lens displaying the following figures: 100 - 300mm f5 would actually behave according to the following numbers: 160-480mm f8 which is a very different performance range.

What is the significance of this? Well, if you want to shoot with wide angles a lens of 18-55mm will actually lose some of its wide angle capability, thus the effective range would be 18x1.6 = 28.8mm to 55x1.6 = 88mm. On the other hand, a 55-250mm lens will have an effective FOV of 88-400mm, which makes it more suitable for a wildlife starter lens perhaps. The 55-250mm IS EF-S STM lens is considered quite a good unit. I do agree with the previous contributor that the 75-300 should be avoided!

One of the most important questions you need to ask yourself is what kind of output do you want to generate? If you don't intend to print large images, then you might want to consider a bridge camera, such as the Powershot SX60HS. These cameras look like a small DSLR, but they have a permanently attached lens and a much smaller sensor. They have all the same basic functions as the DSLR units, but have an enormous range of focal lengths. Currently, in terms of a full-frame unit its focal range is 21-1365mm! So the drawback is that, having a much smaller senor it is prone to more noise (grain) if it does not get sufficient light, but in good light it can produce excellent results - it would give you a good grounding at a very modest price.

Re: Camera for a beginner

RLL39 — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 04:15:09 GMT

Is this the lens you're talking about? Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS Lens. Found a used one for $99. Is that a good price?

Re: Camera for a beginner

Tronhard — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 04:34:17 GMT

There is a later lens in that model, the Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS STM unit, which is an improvement, but the one you quote is quite a good unit too (I owned one). The STM version has dropped the price on the one you mention.

I would recommend looking at sites like DPREVIEW.COM to see what lenses Canon has made and see some of the reviews. Just avoid the tech trolls!

The following images were made with a 10 year old Canon 400D (10 Y.O. body) using a 15-85mm stitched together. NOTE the resolution had been reduced to make posting easier, still I think it reinforces my point.

Re: Camera for a beginner

RLL39 — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 04:35:01 GMT

Thanks! Will definitely check it out

Re: Camera for a beginner

Waddizzle — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 10:21:00 GMT

@RLL39 wrote:
Thanks! Will definitely check it out

I think the best place to purchase "used" Canon gear is at Canon's Online Store, in the Refurbished Department.

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/cameras/refurbished-eos-digital-slr-cameras

They sell refurbished cameras and lenses. The gear comes with one year warranties, too.

Re: Camera for a beginner

ebiggs1 — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:00:19 GMT

"Better equipment does not make you a better photographer,..."

However, you don't see most pro's using cheap gear. Wonder why?

Re: Camera for a beginner

ebiggs1 — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:07:18 GMT

"Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS Lens. Found a used one for $99. Is that a good price?"

"Looking to buy a canon camera bundle for a beginner on a budget of $600. Interest in landscape/wildlife photograph..."

Are you straying from what your original post stated? If you are OK because that is a nice lens for beginners but it will not make a good lens for wildlife shooting. Of course it does depend on what wildlife you want to shoot. Elephants or small birds.

Re: Camera for a beginner

Tronhard — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:21:21 GMT

And most of those pros will have started at some point in their careers as newbies, much like our poster. He is definitely not a pro, so I am not sure of the relevence of your comment to his situation. He is at the very start of his journey and I think it is better that he not invest a lot of money (considering his limited budget) until he learns more about the art and the technology.

You can still get great results from less expensive or older equipment, considering his limited budget I am encouring him to get better lenses that he can afford than focus on body. When I picked Canon I did so on the basis of the excellent 70-200L2.8 MkII lens, which I still consider one of the top lenses in the world. Once you start that, as I said, you buy into a system.

People are often touting the importance upgrading to the newest body and the next model up, and I am not immune from that myself. But in the end they can all render great photos and to provide the best result for our poster, the greatest improvement a new photographer will make is by learning and improving his technique. Doubtless one day he will outgrow his first purchase and when he does he will not take as big a hit as he would have if he had paid full price for a new unit.

Having just read your last post I agree that he is a bit vague on the kinds of photography he has in mind, but I think that is symptomatic of his situation. I found that my interests for non-work photography became more specific as I figured out what I really liked, and that has adapted with time and my location. With a limited budget to start off with, it's hard to find decent lenses that have a big reach. I know some people who do bird photography and they swear by their bridge cameras with their super zooms. But as I have said, the type of output has a major impact on the choice of that kind of camera. If the output is for digital, say 1920x1080 he may get great results from a brige camera, but if he wants to produce prints above say, A3 (double legal?) size, then the resolution may not be that good.

Re: Camera for a beginner

RobertTheFat — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:28:43 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"Better equipment does not make you a better photographer,..."

However, you don't see most pro's using cheap gear. Wonder why?

Better equipment will make any photographer better. How much better depends on how good you already are. The better you already are, the more difference better equipment makes.

Re: Camera for a beginner

ebiggs1 — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:38:12 GMT

Bingo!

Re: Camera for a beginner

Tronhard — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:45:49 GMT

Buying a better camera does NOT , in itself make you a better photographer, you have to have the technical and artistic skills to make use of the features that the technology offers.

When one says that professional photographers use superior gear I agree completely. But that is totally irrelevent to the discussion we have been having to help the original poster. Professional photographers got to be so because they studied the art and science and developed sufficient skills to be able to work at the professional level. There are many poor photographers out there with great gear.

Some of my favourite images have been taken with modest equipment. I have improved my photography over the years through experience, but occasionally I deliberately go back to the older and more modest gear I have to see if I can get more from it, and usually I can. I would say that better equipment allows a good photographer more technical capabilities.

As Ansel Adams said, “The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it!” (i.e. the creative mind).

In that respect I am particularly looking at upgrading DSLRs. Going from a simple point and shoot to a camera with more controls is obviously an important step and a significant factor in taking consistently bette images.

Re: Camera for a beginner

ebiggs1 — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 14:07:26 GMT

" Professional photographers got to be so because they studied the art and science and developed sufficient skills to be able to work at the professional level."

Right! I studied the art in my grandma's bathroom, er ah, I mean darkroom. I went to the local drug store where you could buy any chemical you wanted, no questions asked. No age requirement either. Finally got a brew that developed photos. A desk lamp was my 'enlarger'. An Argus 75 and a roll or two of 620 and school is in session.

It is the same old feelings of guilt about buying better gear that has been around for as long as I can remember. The old saying, buy the best you can afford is more apropos.