topic Re: DSLR prices in Canon store in General Discussion

DSLR prices in Canon store

John_SD — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 15:37:45 GMT

With Canon's renewed committment to mirrorless cameras as the way forward, I have watched its DSLR prices enter free-fall. The same holds true for Nikon, as it, too, is looking to the future. I expect this trend to continue. This is a good thing for someone who is looking for a great deal and doesn't mind buying into dead tech.It's a definitely a buyer's market.

I just took a look in the Canon store, and it is selling new 60D Mark II camera bodies for $1299, refurbished for $1099. On release date of 6/17, the body sold for $2000. For someone who wants to move into full frame with the understanding that mirrorless is the future, killer deals can be had on excellent DSLRs. I think it's worth it even if you want to sit on the sidelines for a few years as mirrorless heats up and its prices remain high. I myself would consider dead tech as an entry point into full frame, with the intention of moving into mirrorless a few years down the line.

Re: DSLR prices in Canon store

ebiggs1 — Tue, 27 Nov 2018 15:18:47 GMT

"...mirrorless is the future,..."

Maybe so but it does not make a DSLR irrelevant. They will continue to work as they do for many years to come. They don't suddenly stop working just becuase a mirrorless camer comes on to market. There is the possibility the DSLR could go the way of the floppy disk. However, I don’t know a single person who misses the floppy disk. The DSLR is 18 years old. Will it be here in another 18 years?

Re: DSLR prices in Canon store

John_SD — Tue, 27 Nov 2018 15:46:33 GMT

I agree.

Re: DSLR prices in Canon store

TCampbell — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 17:08:48 GMT

I don't think I'd say the prices are in "free fall". It's normal for prices to come down on camera bodies that have been in production for several years. It seems like every 5D body starts at over $3k (closer to $3500) and eventually makes its way down to nearer to $2500 when Canon has a replacement body.

There are still trade-offs to mirrorless cameras. Without a reflex mirror and focusing screen, the sensor is always powered up to be able to frame and focus any shot. That will translate into more battery power. While Canon's Dual-Pixel CMOS AF system works well, I don't think it is as fast as Canon's sports bodies. I'm not sure how it performs for action-photography.

Re: DSLR prices in Canon store

RobertTheFat — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:09:35 GMT

@TCampbell wrote:
I don't think I'd say the prices are in "free fall". It's normal for prices to come down on camera bodies that have been in production for several years. It seems like every 5D body starts at over $3k (closer to $3500) and eventually makes its way down to nearer to $2500 when Canon has a replacement body.

There are still trade-offs to mirrorless cameras. Without a reflex mirror and focusing screen, the sensor is always powered up to be able to frame and focus any shot. That will translate into more battery power. While Canon's Dual-Pixel CMOS AF system works well, I don't think it is as fast as Canon's sports bodies. I'm not sure how it performs for action-photography.

I think we pretty much have a consensus: Mirrorless cameras are the wave of the future, but they aren't the current state of the art. Nevertheless, you have to start somewhere. And unlike their previous tepid forays into mirrorless, Canon seems to be serious about it this time. And if history provides any clue, and if technology continues to advance as it has, they'll eventually get it right.

I hope they'll be able to maintain battery compatibility. I have a lot of LP-E6's and 6N's kicking around.

Re: DSLR prices in Canon store

John_SD — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:54:41 GMT

The battery-drain issue inherent with mirrorless is a legitamate concern. The only real way to mitigate that now is to keep more batteries/grips with you in the field, which is costly and cumbersome. However, this prioblem will be engineered away eventually, at least to the point of batteries holding up longer than they do now under mirrorless use. Right now, the BG-E22 grip for the EOS R runs for $490 at B&H. That cost would give many a hobbyist/enthusiast pause.

Re: DSLR prices in Canon store

RobertTheFat — Fri, 30 Nov 2018 00:46:28 GMT

@John_SD wrote:
The battery-drain issue inherent with mirrorless is a legitamate concern. The only real way to mitigate that now is to keep more batteries/grips with you in the field, which is costly and cumbersome. However, this prioblem will be engineered away eventually, at least to the point of batteries holding up longer than they do now under mirrorless use. Right now, the BG-E22 grip for the EOS R runs for $490 at B&H. That cost would give many a hobbyist/enthusiast pause.

Especially since they were giving grips away free when I bought my 5D4 last spring.

Re: DSLR prices in Canon store

ebiggs1 — Fri, 30 Nov 2018 15:26:24 GMT

"There are still trade-offs to mirrorless cameras. ... Canon's Dual-Pixel CMOS AF system works well, I don't think it is as fast as Canon's sports bodies."

Totally agree. It is not.

"... they'll eventually get it right."

One would hope so. IMHO, it is not as of today.

Re: DSLR prices in Canon store

Waddizzle — Sun, 02 Dec 2018 16:33:32 GMT

@TCampbell wrote:

There are still trade-offs to mirrorless cameras. Without a reflex mirror and focusing screen, the sensor is always powered up to be able to frame and focus any shot. That will translate into more battery power. While Canon's Dual-Pixel CMOS AF system works well, I don't think it is as fast as Canon's sports bodies. I'm not sure how it performs for action-photography.

I am guessing that you mean the “the sensor is always powered up” whenever the camera is “awake”. I think DPAF in the EOS-R represents a third generation of the technology. I suspect the focusing system is more than capable. It is lens selection that just may be holding it back from competing with DSLRs and current lenses.

The first generation of DFAF was found in cameras like the 7D Mark II and 70D worked quite well in Live View mode. When used for video, there was a noticeable lag when the AF system would try to track a moving subject. You could lock on a face. If the face moved to a different distance, and then stopped, the face would be out of focus during the movement, and then snap into focus a moment after the face stopped.

What seems to be the 2nd generation of DPAF is found in the 80D, and 6D Mk II. When used for video, the noticeable lag when tracking a moving face is arguably absent. But, this performance is only available with just a few STM zoom lenses. You will not get this level of facial tracking with other Canon lenses.

Along comes the EOS-R with a new AF system, mount adapters, and a handful of new RF lenses. These new RF lenses ARE capable of using all of the Movie Servo AF features. Video must update focus a LOT faster than a DSLR in a continuous shooting mode.

The ability to accurately track moving subjects seems to already be in the EOS-R. I do not see any lenses that are typically used for action photography out there that can realize the capability that already seems to be built into the camera.

Re: DSLR prices in Canon store

RobertTheFat — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 01:41:39 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
@TCampbell wrote:

There are still trade-offs to mirrorless cameras. Without a reflex mirror and focusing screen, the sensor is always powered up to be able to frame and focus any shot. That will translate into more battery power. While Canon's Dual-Pixel CMOS AF system works well, I don't think it is as fast as Canon's sports bodies. I'm not sure how it performs for action-photography.

I am guessing that you mean the “the sensor is always powered up” whenever the camera is “awake”. I think DPAF in the EOS-R represents a third generation of the technology. I suspect the focusing system is more than capable. It is lens selection that just may be holding it back from competing with DSLRs and current lenses.

The first generation of DFAF was found in cameras like the 7D Mark II and 70D worked quite well in Live View mode. When used for video, there was a noticeable lag when the AF system would try to track a moving subject. You could lock on a face. If the face moved to a different distance, and then stopped, the face would be out of focus during the movement, and then snap into focus a moment after the face stopped.

What seems to be the 2nd generation of DPAF is found in the 80D, and 6D Mk II. When used for video, the noticeable lag when tracking a moving face is arguably absent. But, this performance is only available with just a few STM zoom lenses. You will not get this level of facial tracking with other Canon lenses.

Along comes the EOS-R with a new AF system, mount adapters, and a handful of new RF lenses. These new RF lenses ARE capable of using all of the Movie Servo AF features. Video must update focus a LOT faster than a DSLR in a continuous shooting mode.

The ability to accurately track moving subjects seems to already be in the EOS-R. I do not see any lenses that are typically used for action photography out there that can realize the capability that already seems to be built into the camera.

You've got me a bit confused. What is DFAF? You must mean DPAF? But the 7D2 doesn't hav (any generation of) DPAF, does it?

Re: DSLR prices in Canon store

Waddizzle — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 00:50:10 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:
@TCampbell wrote:

There are still trade-offs to mirrorless cameras. Without a reflex mirror and focusing screen, the sensor is always powered up to be able to frame and focus any shot. That will translate into more battery power. While Canon's Dual-Pixel CMOS AF system works well, I don't think it is as fast as Canon's sports bodies. I'm not sure how it performs for action-photography.

I am guessing that you mean the “the sensor is always powered up” whenever the camera is “awake”. I think DPAF in the EOS-R represents a third generation of the technology. I suspect the focusing system is more than capable. It is lens selection that just may be holding it back from competing with DSLRs and current lenses.

The first generation of DFAF was found in cameras like the 7D Mark II and 70D worked quite well in Live View mode. When used for video, there was a noticeable lag when the AF system would try to track a moving subject. You could lock on a face. If the face moved to a different distance, and then stopped, the face would be out of focus during the movement, and then snap into focus a moment after the face stopped.

What seems to be the 2nd generation of DPAF is found in the 80D, and 6D Mk II. When used for video, the noticeable lag when tracking a moving face is arguably absent. But, this performance is only available with just a few STM zoom lenses. You will not get this level of facial tracking with other Canon lenses.

Along comes the EOS-R with a new AF system, mount adapters, and a handful of new RF lenses. These new RF lenses ARE capable of using all of the Movie Servo AF features. Video must update focus a LOT faster than a DSLR in a continuous shooting mode.

The ability to accurately track moving subjects seems to already be in the EOS-R. I do not see any lenses that are typically used for action photography out there that can realize the capability that already seems to be built into the camera.
You've got me a bit confused. What is DFAF? You must mean DPAF? But the 7D2 doesn't hav (any generation of) DPAF, does it?

Yeah, that is a typo. Do not forget, technically I am legally blind.

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-7d-mark-ii-body-wi-fi-adapter-kit

The 7D Mark II has DPAF, as well as the 7D. But, it was geared up for Live View shooting, not so much for video.

Re: DSLR prices in Canon store

RobertTheFat — Fri, 07 Dec 2018 14:09:34 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
The 7D Mark II has DPAF, as well as the 7D. But, it was geared up for Live View shooting, not so much for video.

I stand corrected on the 7D2. The manual does indeed say that it has DPAF.

But the word "dual" appears in the 7D manual only in connection with the number of DIGIC processors the camera has. I'm almost sure the 7D doesn't have DPAF.

Re: DSLR prices in Canon store

ebiggs1 — Fri, 07 Dec 2018 14:48:36 GMT

"The manual does indeed say that it has DPAF."

Never argue with a guy that lives to read manuals and reviews.

Re: DSLR prices in Canon store

Waddizzle — Sat, 08 Dec 2018 00:08:51 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:
The 7D Mark II has DPAF, as well as the 7D. But, it was geared up for Live View shooting, not so much for video.
I stand corrected on the 7D2. The manual does indeed say that it has DPAF.

But the word "dual" appears in the 7D manual only in connection with the number of DIGIC processors the camera has. I'm almost sure the 7D doesn't have DPAF.

You are correct about the 7D. I believe Canon’s Dual Pixel AF was introduced in the 70D, not the 7D.

In any case, that first generation was an improvement in Live View focusing accuracy. The 2nd generation found in the 7D2 could track in Live View. It was not until what seems to be a third generation, first introduced in the 80D, that could perform smooth Movie Servo AF.