topic Upgrade what equipment first? in General Discussion

Upgrade what equipment first?

jmr6 — Fri, 19 May 2017 14:02:01 GMT

Currently I have a 2 year old Canon Rebel SL1/100D. I have the kit lenses that came with the camera and a Tamaron 150-600 telephoto. I am almost primarily a Landscape/Wildlife enthusiast but starting to get into street scenes.

My question is this, should I upgrade from the two kit lenses first OR look into a 7D Mark 2 or an 80D and upgrade the camera first?

Re: Upgrade what equipment first?

ScottyP — Fri, 19 May 2017 14:41:51 GMT

Lenses for sure. Kit lenses on a 7d2 will make images that look just like they did on your current camera.

Also, nothing you shoot is fast moving so the particular features (complex autofocus) you pay for in a sports camera like 7d2 would not be much benefit to you, for your money.

You dont have any lenses with large apertures. You should have something for low light and for shallow DOF. Either an f/2.8 zoom or an f/1.8 or f/1.4 prime lens.

Also maybe a wide angle lens.

Re: Upgrade what equipment first?

jmr6 — Fri, 19 May 2017 14:50:44 GMT

I should be more specific, I do a lot of Bird photography and would like something that is better for capturing birds in flight. I also would like the ability for less noise and to be able to do a good bit of cropping on occasion.

Re: Upgrade what equipment first?

TTMartin — Fri, 19 May 2017 15:34:43 GMT

@jmr6 wrote:
Currently I have a 2 year old Canon Rebel SL1/100D. I have the kit lenses that came with the camera and a Tamaron 150-600 telephoto. I am almost primarily a Landscape/Wildlife enthusiast but starting to get into street scenes.

My question is this, should I upgrade from the two kit lenses first OR look into a 7D Mark 2 or an 80D and upgrade the camera first?

The SL1 kit from Canon came with the EF-S 18-55 IS STM lens. There is little that upgrading that lens will do except add weight. It already has very good image quality.

If you are looking to upgrade, you have to ask the question where is my current gear letting me down. You should upgrade if your current gear has shortcomings that you are aware of. Not, just upgrade to upgrade.

Your current camera is great when using the EF-S kit lens. I imagine it is a little small and harder to hold when attached to the Tamron 15-600. So if that is the case then a 7D Mk II will give you something more substantial to hold onto.

But, I would still keep the SL1/100D for its light weight and easy to carry.

You might want to look into the EF-S 10-18 IS STM lens for your landscape work as you might appreciate the wider angle. And its still small and light like your SL1.

But, again where is your current gear holding you back, answer that and then you'll know where to spend your money. If your current gear isn't holding you back, upgrade you savings account and keep your money..

Re: Upgrade what equipment first?

TTMartin — Fri, 19 May 2017 15:40:59 GMT

@jmr6 wrote:
I should be more specific, I do a lot of Bird photography and would like something that is better for capturing birds in flight. I also would like the ability for less noise and to be able to do a good bit of cropping on occasion.

The Tamron 150-600 lens is likely what is holding you back on your cropping ability. It is really only a average lens, despite having a big cheerleader here. Tamron has released a new version of the 150-600, if the first version was that great why the relatively quick upgrade cycle.

The Canon EF 100-400 L IS II has unmatched image quality. It's image quality is so good that even when using a 1.4X III Teleconverter it still outperforms the 150-600s from Tamron and Sigma. However, in order for AF to with the TC you need a camera that will AF at f/8 like the 7D Mk II or the 80D.

Re: Upgrade what equipment first?

Waddizzle — Fri, 19 May 2017 22:32:56 GMT

The one thing that one can do it improve their images is to buy a better lens. The keyword here is better. Your kit STM lens is pretty good. The SL1 body comes up short on low light performance, and number of AF points. It is not well suited for tracking birds in flight, although it can be done with practice. If you do not have a wide aperture lens, f/1.8 or better, then I suggest you invest in one. It will teach you a lot about photography.

If you want to upgrade the camera body, then a 7D Mark II, or an 80D. I say go for the 80D, because it has far more points that can focus at f/8 than the 7D Mark II. While the 7D2 is built like a tank, and has a fantastic AF ssystem, the 80D AF system is nearly as good, and it produces images with lower noise than the 7D2.

One of the best Canon camera/lens combinations for action photography, like birding, is the 7D Mark II and the EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM. I cannot say how good the Tamron is, but i can say that I am not all that impressed with the Sigma 150-600mm, either.

Good thing the Sigma has the Sigma Dock, so that I could tune the lens with AFMA. I've been testing and tweaking if for over a year now. That was shot with a 6D 1/2000, f/8, ISO 5000, ..., I think. I'm not using the right PC to check the exposure.

But, the 7D2 and the 100-400mm is even more impressive, though.

Re: Upgrade what equipment first?

RobertTheFat — Sat, 20 May 2017 02:48:00 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
...
Good thing the Sigma has the Sigma Dock, so that I could tune the lens with AFMA. I've been testing and tweaking if for over a year now. That was shot with a 6D 1/2000, f/8, ISO 5000, ..., I think. I'm not using the right PC to check the exposure.

Why do you need the Sigma Dock? Doesn't the 6D have in-camera AFMA?

Re: Upgrade what equipment first?

Waddizzle — Sat, 20 May 2017 05:54:45 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:
...
Good thing the Sigma has the Sigma Dock, so that I could tune the lens with AFMA. I've been testing and tweaking if for over a year now. That was shot with a 6D 1/2000, f/8, ISO 5000, ..., I think. I'm not using the right PC to check the exposure.
Why do you need the Sigma Dock? Doesn't the 6D have in-camera AFMA?

Canon camera bodies do not recognize third party lenses, just as DPP doesn't recognize them, either. Besides, my lens was so far off as got closer to 600mm, the range of adjustment in the camera was insufficient.

The Sigma Dock gives you 16 points of adjustment, compared to the 2 points in the camera. It's why I have been repeating tests from time to time for over a year. You can adjust the 150-600mm at four different focal lengths, each of which can adjusted a four different focusing distances.

I haven't made any changes through the Sigma Dock since my initial rounds of testing over a year ago. Most of my "testing" of the lens since that time, has been to simply use it normally, but take a extra shots at different focal lengths, and verifying the focus points and DOF through Lightroom.

It is still little soft when focusing at infinity at 600mm, llike focusing on the Moon, for instance. But, it is pretty sharp at 600mm for subjects as far as up to 2-3 hundred yards, but still seems to fall off past that point, just not as badly as out of the box.

Re: Upgrade what equipment first?

ebiggs1 — Sat, 20 May 2017 07:07:31 GMT

jmr6,

100mm to 400mm in real world the Canon may be as good or slightly better IQ wise. From 500mm to 600mm, muddies the water a bit for the Canon. It now requires a 1.4x TC. This is still native territory for the Sigma or Tamron. I am not big fan of using a TC especially when the open aperture is pushed to f8. Some cameras will still AF at f8 but it is always a compromised solution.

The real place the 100-400mm beats the Sigma/Tamron pair is in shooting MTF charts. If that is what you want to do and you don't want 500mm to 600mm buy the Canon. Otherwise if you want to use the lens in actual real world photography go for the Sigam/Tamron.

In your case I would buy, your choice an 80D or 7D Mk II. Keep the Sigma 150-600mm and start saving for the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens as you next purchase.

Re: Upgrade what equipment first?

RobertTheFat — Sat, 20 May 2017 14:21:11 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
@RobertTheFat wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:
...
Good thing the Sigma has the Sigma Dock, so that I could tune the lens with AFMA. I've been testing and tweaking if for over a year now. That was shot with a 6D 1/2000, f/8, ISO 5000, ..., I think. I'm not using the right PC to check the exposure.
Why do you need the Sigma Dock? Doesn't the 6D have in-camera AFMA?
Canon camera bodies do not recognize third party lenses, just as DPP doesn't recognize them, either. ....

'Taint so. I've used AFMA on several 3rd-party lenses. The camera doesn't identify them by brand name, but it does recognize them.

That's an apples vs oranges comparison anyway. What DPP doesn't recognize are 3rd-party lens distortion corrections, which have nothing to do with AFMA.

The rest of your explanation of the Sigma Dock (the part I didn't quote) does, of course, answer my question.

Re: Upgrade what equipment first?

TTMartin — Sat, 20 May 2017 15:28:15 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
'Taint so. I've used AFMA on several 3rd-party lenses. The camera doesn't identify them by brand name, but it does recognize them.

That's an apples vs oranges comparison anyway. What DPP doesn't recognize are 3rd-party lens distortion corrections, which have nothing to do with AFMA.

The rest of your explanation of the Sigma Dock (the part I didn't quote) does, of course, answer my question.

While you can AF micro adjust 3rd party lenses sometimes they are beyond the range of adjustment.

The first 3rd party lens I got for my 50D was a Sigma 70-200 f/2.8. It was near the limit of AF micro adjustment on my 50D. When I purchased my 7D it was beyond the range of adjustment for that camera. I sent it into Sigma and had them calibrate the lens. After Sigma calibrated it, it was spot on with both my 7D and my XTi which didn't have AF micro focus adjustment. It still required a small adjustment on the 50D, but, was much closer than before.

Re: Upgrade what equipment first?

Waddizzle — Sat, 20 May 2017 15:33:20 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:
@RobertTheFat wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:
...
Good thing the Sigma has the Sigma Dock, so that I could tune the lens with AFMA. I've been testing and tweaking if for over a year now. That was shot with a 6D 1/2000, f/8, ISO 5000, ..., I think. I'm not using the right PC to check the exposure.
Why do you need the Sigma Dock? Doesn't the 6D have in-camera AFMA?
Canon camera bodies do not recognize third party lenses, just as DPP doesn't recognize them, either. ....
'Taint so. I've used AFMA on several 3rd-party lenses. The camera doesn't identify them by brand name, but it does recognize them.

That's an apples vs oranges comparison anyway. What DPP doesn't recognize are 3rd-party lens distortion corrections, which have nothing to do with AFMA.

The rest of your explanation of the Sigma Dock (the part I didn't quote) does, of course, answer my question.

Misidentifying the lens is the same as not identifying the lens in my book, IMHO.

Re: Upgrade what equipment first?

Waddizzle — Sat, 20 May 2017 15:38:36 GMT

@TTMartin wrote:
@RobertTheFat wrote:
'Taint so. I've used AFMA on several 3rd-party lenses. The camera doesn't identify them by brand name, but it does recognize them.

That's an apples vs oranges comparison anyway. What DPP doesn't recognize are 3rd-party lens distortion corrections, which have nothing to do with AFMA.

The rest of your explanation of the Sigma Dock (the part I didn't quote) does, of course, answer my question.
While you can AF micro adjust 3rd party lenses sometimes they are beyond the range of adjustment.

The first 3rd party lens I got for my 50D was a Sigma 70-200 f/2.8. It was near the limit of AF micro adjustment on my 50D. When I purchased my 7D it was beyond the range of adjustment for that camera. I sent it into Sigma and had them calibrate the lens. After Sigma calibrated it, it was spot on with both my 7D and my XTi which didn't have AF micro focus adjustment. It still required a small adjustment on the 50D, but, was much closer than before.

Exactly. My Sigma 150-600 was not only beyond the range of adjustment, the camera thought it was some Canon lens model. This focusing error is exactly why I sold the 150-500, and bought the 150-600 and the Sigma Dock. I started to send the 150-600mm lens to Sigma, but the only address I could find for Sigma USA was #I WTC, One World Trade Center.

Guess what brand of lens I will never buy again. Sigma.

Re: Upgrade what equipment first?

ebiggs1 — Sat, 20 May 2017 15:57:29 GMT

Two things.

First send the Sigma in. They have upgraded their CS a whole lot. Not to Canon level or standard but certainly better than it once was.

Second, the dock allows firmware updates by the lens owner in addition to focus speed and others. I don't believe that was mentioned.

IMHO, I think you got a bad copy. My four current big Sigma zooms do no display what yours seems to. You can get a bad copy of anybodies lens. Not just Sigma's! I have owned about a dozen of the big Siggies.

I do know it is possible to get bad copies because I went through three Sigma 150-500mm f/5-6.3 APO DG OS HSM Lens before I got the one I currently have. It is very good and I have no AFMA correction done on either camera I use it on.

SIGMA CORPORATION OF AMERICA

Attn: Service Department
15 Fleetwood Court
Ronkonkoma, NY 11779