topic Re: First post - need a new camera! in General Discussion

First post - need a new camera!

KattyLou — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 01:27:50 GMT

Hello all,

I have enjoyed perusing this forum as a visitor, and I hope to eventually contribute as I gain more knowledge. I consider myself an advanced beginner... ha ha! I have using a Rebel XSi (450D) for 8 years, out of automatic mode as much as possible (though I haven't progressed to manual focus because I mostly take pictures of my kids, who can't sit still). The camera has been fine, but I am having trouble getting focused, non-blurry shots of my kids indoors and without a flash (Sadly, my iPhone works better!). Mostly I shoot with the kit lens, EFS 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS, and I've read several times that it's not great for what I need. I also have the EFS 55-250 f/4-5.6 IS which I like better outdoors, but obviously doesn't work for indoor shots of my kids.

Sooo... if you made it this far.... I am not sure if I need a new lens(es) or a new camera... one with a faster fps or bigger sensor (hope I'm using the terminology correctly). Maybe the T6i? Again, it's mostly for shots of my kids, candids and just "preserve the moment/joy/emotion" etc, but it must be good in lowish light settings (not dark necessarily, just indoors). Ideally I'd like to stay under $500... For sure under $1000 for everything. So... can I just upgrade my lens, and what do you suggest? Or is the XSi just too old and I should go for a new body? Or maybe I should be able to achieve what I want just fine and I am too much of a beginner to understand how! In that case, can you point me in the direction of some helpful books or study guides?! 🙂

Thanks you in advance for any direction you can offer!

Re: First post - need a new camera!

RobertTheFat — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 01:55:25 GMT

@KattyLou wrote:
Hello all,

I have enjoyed perusing this forum as a visitor, and I hope to eventually contribute as I gain more knowledge. I consider myself an advanced beginner... ha ha! I have using a Rebel XSi (450D) for 8 years, out of automatic mode as much as possible (though I haven't progressed to manual focus because I mostly take pictures of my kids, who can't sit still). The camera has been fine, but I am having trouble getting focused, non-blurry shots of my kids indoors and without a flash (Sadly, my iPhone works better!). Mostly I shoot with the kit lens, EFS 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS, and I've read several times that it's not great for what I need. I also have the EFS 55-250 f/4-5.6 IS which I like better outdoors, but obviously doesn't work for indoor shots of my kids.

Sooo... if you made it this far.... I am not sure if I need a new lens(es) or a new camera... one with a faster fps or bigger sensor (hope I'm using the terminology correctly). Maybe the T6i? Again, it's mostly for shots of my kids, candids and just "preserve the moment/joy/emotion" etc, but it must be good in lowish light settings (not dark necessarily, just indoors). Ideally I'd like to stay under $500... For sure under $1000 for everything. So... can I just upgrade my lens, and what do you suggest? Or is the XSi just too old and I should go for a new body? Or maybe I should be able to achieve what I want just fine and I am too much of a beginner to understand how! In that case, can you point me in the direction of some helpful books or study guides?! 🙂

Thanks you in advance for any direction you can offer!

The least expensive improvement you could make to address your main problem is to stop avoiding the use of flash for your indoor shots. I can see why you'd consider the built-in flash inadequate, but a decent external flash is within your budget. There's a Mark III version of the 430EX that goes for about $250; it would allow you to use bounce flash, which is usually the best way to light indoor scenes. The next step, if any, would be a faster lens; the customary recommendation is the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS. To keep the price down, you might try looking for a refurb at Canon's on-line store. Only if those don't solve your immediate problem would I suggest you look for a new camera. But when you are ready to take that step, the T6i (or a successor, since new Rebels come out fairly often) would be a good choice.

Re: First post - need a new camera!

ScottyP — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 03:36:58 GMT

Agree with Bob. And if you sell your camera and lens to defray the cost it is do-able.

Re: First post - need a new camera!

ebiggs1 — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 16:49:57 GMT

KattyLou,

"Thanks you in advance for any direction you can offer!"

I am going to direct you in a different direction than a flash. I can almost guarantee you will come to hate a bigger flash.

Your problem is not enough light. We all agree on that. Another way to get the required light is either a faster lens or a higher ISO. The reason your cell phone does a better job is, it has a higher ISO than your Rebel does. If you compare your camera to a T6i for instance, you will gain a more than 3 stop advantage in ISO. That just might do the trick. Your cell phone uses 'Auto ISO', You can set your Rebel and/or a newer model to Auto ISO, too.

KattyLou said, "I'd like to stay under $500... For sure under $1000 for everything." Unfortunately KattyLou, this comes at a high price. There is no free lunch in photography. I work professionally. I sell my photos. I rarely use a flash and I have a 1/2 dozen or so, of them. Of course the gear I have is the best I can get and it is expensive. But your kids are your little kids for a short time. Is it worth a $500 or a $1000?

I think a Rebel T6i is around $750. Also an upgrade in your lens such as a Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art Lens for Canon is a possibility. I think they are in the same $700/$800 price range. I know that combo is well above what you said was your budget but for $1400/$1500 you would gain around 6 full f-stops. And the best part, you don't have that stinking flash to deal with.

Re: First post - need a new camera!

ScottyP — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 18:35:07 GMT

I should have elaborated. Primarily, I meant to agree with the 17-55 f/2.8 lens recommendation. Ernie's suggestion of the amazing 18-35 f/1.8 is another, even brighter choice. Even just a cheap-o 50mm f/1.8 for $100.00 will help if that is all you have to spend, but the other choices are better.

You can sell sell your existing equipment on Craigslist or eBay to defray the cost.

Flash can be an affordable addition to your equipment, but it takes skill to use effectively. Even then it can sometimes fall short of ideal, either looking fake or unevenly lighting the scene, or simply missing the proper power level, or not firing at all due to recharge delay.

Your biggest bang is normally going to be getting a brighter lens. Going from a kit lens to a bright prime or that Sigma will give you 2-3 stops of light, which is powerful indeed. A camera upgrade typically gives a more modest boost but if your body is quite old like yours is, then you will see a couple or better stop boost in low light performance there too.

Re: First post - need a new camera!

KattyLou — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 04:10:40 GMT

Thank you for your comments and advice. I very much appreciate those that took time to share their thoughts.

I think I will look for a faster lens, focusing on those that have been mentioned here. I originally brought up the T6i, but someone commented that the Rebels are updated fairly frequently. If I were to up my budget a bit, is there a better camera for what I want? Is the 70/80D too much camera for an "advanced beginner"? I enjoy photography as a hobby and would like to come away with stellar photos of my kids and our travels, but I'm not looking to break the bank as of yet. 🙂 I do want one that is going to last several years and not become obsolete, and I don't want to "outgrow" it as I become more knowledgeable.

Also, when I am ready to buy either lens or body, from where do you recommend I purchase? I see the Canon refurbs mentioned often, but I also imagine that places like Amazon, B&H or camera stores are an option. Any reason to shop one more than the others (besides price)?

I have lots of reading and researching to do. Thank you again for your help... and thank you to the person who reminded me that my babies are only little once. So true, and it will help to remind my husband that when I try to convince him of this purchase! 😉

Re: First post - need a new camera!

RobertTheFat — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 05:48:43 GMT

@KattyLou wrote:
Thank you for your comments and advice. I very much appreciate those that took time to share their thoughts.

I think I will look for a faster lens, focusing on those that have been mentioned here. I originally brought up the T6i, but someone commented that the Rebels are updated fairly frequently. If I were to up my budget a bit, is there a better camera for what I want? Is the 70/80D too much camera for an "advanced beginner"? I enjoy photography as a hobby and would like to come away with stellar photos of my kids and our travels, but I'm not looking to break the bank as of yet. 🙂 I do want one that is going to last several years and not become obsolete, and I don't want to "outgrow" it as I become more knowledgeable. ...

We generally try to avoid advising users to buy more camera than they need. But if you're going to buy a new camera, keep it as long as you've kept your current camera, and not outgrow it, I think I'd have to suggest that you get the 80D. As you learn, you can use the 80D as though it were a lesser camera. But that doesn't work in reverse.

Re: First post - need a new camera!

ebiggs1 — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 12:02:32 GMT

KattyLou,

Upgrading your camera, in your situation is a good idea. Anything electronic will become obsolete almost as fast as you get it home! I think you are aware of that? Take your cell phone as an example. What are we up to now, I-7 ?

But there are two things to consider. The first one is your choice of lens. Best part lenses go obsolete much more slowly than the camera does. Choose a good one and it will serve you for years. Possibly for decades! Don't consider any lens slower than f2.8 for instance. The kit lens is severely limited in many ways and is designed for the basic beginner.

That brings us to the second part. You now say you may be more interested in photography. You may want to extend your skills. Correct? A Rebel t6I will certainly help you accomplish that goal. Is there a better choice? Possibly and maybe not.

A camera needs to be and should be considered as a whole and not just one spec. Make sense?

If you purchase either a new lens or camera alone, I doubt you will satisfy your original goal. It will require both as simply one or the other doesn't up your game enough. All photographic gear has its limit. No matter how much it costs.

Re: First post - need a new camera!

Waddizzle — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 13:57:26 GMT

I would advise one these four cameras: T6i and the T6s, or the 70D and 80D. The "T" cameras are Rebels, which are great starter cameras, but have some limitations. If you want a true camera body upgrade, pick a 70D, or the even better 80D.

I suspect that your EF-S 18-55mm lens model does not end with "STM". There have been several versions of that particular kit lens over the years. I'm guessing that you have one of the early models. The most recent release is pretty good. It employs the "STM" aufto-focus drive motors, which are more accurate, faster, smoother, quieter. All of that adds up to better and more consistently accurate focus performance.

If you want to shoot indoors, you are going to need fast lenses, which means f/2.8 or faster. If you use lenses much larger than your 18-55mm, then you will likely need an external flash. Because your built-in flash doesn't raise up high enough over the lens, such that the lens doesn't block some the light and casting a shadow into your shot.

Canon offers three lenses for people on tight budgets: EF 50mm f/1.8 STM, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, and the EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM. The last two lenses are very low profile, "pancake" body lenses. The 50mm lens would be portrait length on your current camera, as well as the camera bodies that I suggested above. Portrait length means it will good for taking head and shoulder shots, but will probably be a little long [too much focal length] for most indoor shots in a home.

However, the 50mm is currently being offered in 2 lens kit, with a good wide angle lens, the EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM lens. The current sale price of the kit make it a really good deal. You will get a fast lens in the 50mm, as well as nice wide angle lens to use indoors, which most likely will not cast a shadow with the internal flash. This kit would be a good compliment with any of the cameras that I suggested above and the EF-S 18-55mm STM lens.

Re: First post - need a new camera!

Waddizzle — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 14:22:17 GMT

Finally, one option, which surprisingly has not already been raised, is the post processing software that you use. I use Adobe Lightroom 6, which is not the subscription version. Adobe LR6 wouldd a serious upgrade over Canon's DPP, Digital Photo Professional, photo processing software package.

The best part is that Adobe LR6, with the perpetual license, costs less than a quality flash unit would cost. The shot just below of a dry river bed is more or less straight out the camera.

This next shot is the same photo, but with White Balance correction, and modest Noise Reduction, and Contrast and Exposure Corrections.

The difference post-processing in a digital darkroom can make are significant. The Canon DPP package is good, but Adobe LR6 is on an entirely different level.

Besides, LR6 runs about four times faster the DPP when processing RAW to JPEG files. And, LR6 loads large [30MB] files in a second, while DPP can take up to a minute for some reason.

Re: First post - need a new camera!

TCampbell — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 16:06:09 GMT

Your current camera is a bit limited in ISO performance. It can't use a particularly high ISO and when at the ISO's it can handle, it's fairly "noisy". A new camera can certainly solve the problem that way, but it wont be under $500 (but it could easily be under $1000).

Another angle to consider is the lens. The lens you are using is a standard "kit" lens with a variable focal ratio which means that as you "zoom" the lowest possible focal ratio that the lens can handle will vary. At the wide angle end it can handle f/2.8 but when zoomed in even just about half way to the 55mm end (say... around 40mm) the lens' lowest possible focal ratio will be f/5.6. An f/2.8 zoom would allow 4x more light than an f/5.6 lens. You could also select one of the primes such as the 40mm pancake lens or the 50mm f/1.8 STM lens. (f/1.8 collects roughly 10x more light than f/5.6).

But this has some drawbacks as well. When you go to a lower focal ratio, you're reducing the "depth of field" of the camera. "Depth of field" is the range of distances at which a subject will appear to be acceptably focused. At f/5.6 you'd have some room to play with (the subject can move a little and it will still appear to be a reasonably focused shot). But at f/2.8 it gets shallower and at f/1.8 it gets very shallow (meaning if the subject moves much at all the camera can miss focus.) You can combat that by switching the camera to "AI Servo" focus mode (which causes the camera to continuously focus -- you wont hear it beep to confirm focus in that mode because it never stops focusing.)

And then of course... there's the light. THE best way to solve this problem is to provide adequate light. The flash can easily freeze action. Flashes such as the 430EX-III RT also have a built-in focus assist beam that lights up a red pattern the camera can easily use to lock focus -- even in a completely dark room it will lock focus with no problem.) It's a great solution, but the downside is that you may not like the look of the light.

To get around the "look" of straight-on flash, these larger flashes allow you to point the head of the flash anywhere you want -- you don't have to point it straight at the subject. It has enough power to let you "bounce" the light off the ceiling giving you a shower of light rather than a pin-point source of light that came from the camera. If you are too close you'll get the "racoon eyes" (eye sockets are in shadow when the light comes from above) so a small bounce card can kick a tiny amount of light forward to fill in the eye-sockets (even though most light comes from above) and it even creates a nice reflection in your subject's eyes.

Re: First post - need a new camera!

Waddizzle — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 16:33:57 GMT

"I have enjoyed perusing this forum as a visitor, and I hope to eventually contribute as I gain more knowledge. I consider myself an advanced beginner... ha ha! I have using a Rebel XSi (450D) for 8 years, out of automatic mode as much as possible (though I haven't progressed to manual focus because I mostly take pictures of my kids, who can't sit still). "

I rarely focus manually when I am hand holding the camera.

Just about the only time I do manual focus, is when I use my Rokinon 14mm manual focus lens, which has a very short hyperfocal distance, roughly 8 feet at f/2.8 and 6 feet at f/4. The short hyperfocal distance means that once I set focus at the hyperfocal distance, everything beyond a few feet is in sharp focus. I don't need to adjust it as I walk around, just periodically check that it has not moved.

I will frequently manual focus when the camera is mounted on a tripod, depending upon the shooting scenario, though. Because when I am using a tripod, I usually have the time to do it. Usually, I am shooting a subject that is hard for the camera to achieve critical focus, or I don't want the camera to change the focus once I have "locked" it in.