topic Re: Best camera for beginners in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Best camera for beginners

AMP — Sat, 06 May 2023 01:15:59 GMT

Best camera for beginners

Re: Best camera for beginners

rs-eos — Sat, 06 May 2023 01:59:08 GMT

You'll need to provide more details. For starters:

What is your overall budget?
What types of photography do you wish to start out with? (landscapes?, portraits?, etc.)

Re: Best camera for beginners

Tronhard — Sat, 06 May 2023 02:06:23 GMT

Honestly, that is impossible to answer without a lot more detail. Can I suggest you check out the link below to the following post and consider the criteria it addresses. Then come back to us with that and we help you with specific information.

https://community.usa.canon.com/t5/General-Discussion/Considerations-for-People-Seeking-Gear-Advice/td-p/279908

Re: Best camera for beginners

AMP — Sat, 06 May 2023 20:04:18 GMT

My go-to captures are land/cityscapes typically around sunset. But, I do love experimenting with wildlife, macro, portraits, etc.
While I don’t except my 1st camera to have latest technologies it MUST be better than an iPhone.
So far I’ve captured millions of amazing moments in my iPhone so if cameras don’t have better features then investment is NOT worth.
Right now due to family commitments I don’t travel too much but I’m serious about becoming a more enthusiastic photographer.
I would like my 1st camera to be of modest pricing (definitely better than iPhones but not too crazy).
I am SERIOUS about committing to photography and going pro at some point in the future.
I am NOT interested in videos at all.
I would like a camera that allows for high-definition metal prints (potentially to be used as wall decor at friends/families).
I’m also fond of social media.
I don’t mind carrying around decent/modest gear in terms of pricing & features.
Again I don’t need a camera that’s serious on technology/features as I’m only starting out but I love to learn stuff and would appreciate it there’re references to learn about camera features, how to use em efficiently.
All that said, requesting y’all to provide some information on good camera options (body, lenses, etc). Also, I’m based in the Dallas area and if you had any club/society information that would be great too.

Re: Best camera for beginners

rs-eos — Sat, 06 May 2023 20:12:51 GMT

What does "modest pricing" mean? We'll need an actual dollar amount/range for your budget.

Re: Best camera for beginners

AMP — Sat, 06 May 2023 20:33:00 GMT

Honestly I'm not sure give me different options to look at pls. Maybe something around $1000 or $1500.

Re: Best camera for beginners

Tronhard — Sat, 06 May 2023 20:55:42 GMT

Hi, and thanks for responding so comprehensively. One critical feature missing is still budget - we could recommend cameras that are out of your price range or not include cameras you can afford.

Dedicated cameras are far more powerful than good smart phone for a wide range of applications. Smartphones are great for social events and even some landscapes that generally favour wide angles, and they have the benefit of a wide ranger of apps that can work wonders with the image output from small sensors and optics.

Dedicated camera offer much bigger sensors with the potential to produce images with more dynamic range (i.e. range of tones between pure black and pure white), higher optical resolution, and optics that can directly bring subjects much close to you - for example birds or large animals, or insects. They also offer benefits to isolate subjects from their backgrounds, which are appropriate for portraiture, for example.

However, smart phones tend to do the work for the human, but dedicated cameras require much more investment from the user in terms of controlling the image. This means understanding some of the physics that govern photography, how exposure works and the three elements that control it: Shutter Speed, Aperture, and ISO. These three combine to control the amount of light captured, but the combinations of these render significant differences in the composition of the image. For example, shutter speed can be used to freeze a drop of water in mid air, or create a dreamy effect with a long exposure. My point here is that you need to be prepared to study this, take a lot of images and accept that your early efforts may not be as successful as you might expect with a cell phone - it's not the technology at this point, it's the user's skill that needs to be developed.

So, some suggestions for you to consider:
1. Join a local photographic society or camera club
2. Digest some videos on the basics of how cameras work and learn some of the terminology:
For example: If you go to your local library website, search for an item on LinkedIn Learning. If the library has the link in its catalogue, you will have free access to a wide range of high quality tutorials on a vast range of subjects, presented by qualified professional and educators. The range of topics on photography is vast.
Check out the following You Tube Video:
Overview by Chris Bray, National Geographic photographer:
Learn Photography - Simple, Practical - Free Photography Course 1/10 - YouTube

I would suggest that you hold back on aspirations for producing large, detailed prints for the time being, and concentrate on producing for digital display. There are two reasons for this: the gear is cheaper and large, detailed prints will be likely to show flaws in the images. Second, as I mentioned, the investment for large, detailed HIGH QUALITY prints is much greater, both for gear and the printing + mounting costs. It is something to aspire to, and that will come, but just be patient.

The Gear: As mentioned, without a budget this is hard to be too specific on.

There are two things to consider here:
a) The camera body which contains the sensor to capture the image, along with light metering and other technology that may stabilize the camera when shooting.
b) At least as important are the optics: the lenses that will offer you different focal length for a range of applications from capturing wide vistas to magnifying subjects. The lens arguably has a greater impact on the image than the camera body - something that those starting out often do not realize. Lenses often cost more than the camera body, and that is particularly true for aspirations to create larger, detailed prints.

Since you are starting out, I would recommend going for Canon R-series Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Cameras (MILCs). These are the latest technology and have significant benefits over the earlier DSLR cameras. At the beginner level there are two bodies that offer potential:
The Canon EOS R10 is a starter unit that has what is called a crop sensor - smaller than a 35mm film negative (which is considered a 'Full Frame' size). You can fit a wide range of Canon RF and RF-S lenses to it.

I would suggest starting out with a single, general purpose lens for the body, something like the RF-S 18-150mm F3.5-6.3 IS STM lens. This will allow you to shoot some reasonably wide angle to moderate telephoto images, portraits and events - it's a good general purpose starting point.

An alternative to the crop sensor camera, is the Canon EOS R8, which has the same size sensor as a 35mm negative and is thus called a Full-Frame camera. This is a brilliant unit, and offers some features that the R10 does not. If you chose this unit, then I would suggest going with the RF 24-240mm f/4-6.3 IS USM lens. Again, a great general purpose, all-in-one unit.

At this point in your development you are seeking to learn about your camera and how to use its controls to create images that are well exposed and allow you to compose pleasing images. It is a learning curve and you are just starting!

As I don't live in the USA, I will not venture specific pricing, but I will suggest looking at the Canon Refurbished Camera site where one can get gently used cameras, restored to as new and come with a warranty at reduced prices.

Re: Best camera for beginners

Tronhard — Sat, 06 May 2023 21:00:10 GMT

Here is a link to the Canon Mirrorless camera website, it will give you an idea of prices direct from Canon. I suggest you check out the gear combinations I suggested.

Canon Mirrorless Cameras: EOS | Canon U.S.A, Inc.

Re: Best camera for beginners

AMP — Mon, 08 May 2023 21:56:28 GMT

@Tronhard: Thanks for the awesome comprehensive suggestions. I'll check out refurbished options for the body/lenses you suggested. One more question: What're your thoughts on compact cameras (no-lenses) for beginners? Does canon have any such options??

Re: Best camera for beginners

Tronhard — Mon, 08 May 2023 23:32:57 GMT

Hi again. 🙂

Canon does have a range of compact cameras. However, these have different size sensors depending on the type of camera you look at. To give you an idea of the range of sensors, check out this chart:

The relative sizes of different camera sensors
if you are serious about the range of subjects that you have identified, you would need a camera with interchangeable lenses to get the combination of quality and reach involved.

That said, Canon do make a range of superzoom cameras called Bridge Cameras - The PowerShot SX series. These look like miniature DSLR cameras, with most of the same controls, but with a single, built-in lens offering a massive zoom range, but a tiny 12/3" sensor no bigger than that one might find on a cell phone, and that conflicts with the image quality you want.

The current flagship in that range is the PowerShot SX70HS, which has a focal range equivalent to what one would get in a full-frame camera of 21-1365mm. I had the SX60HS camera, and that has essentially the same focal range as the SX70HS, and is arguably more attuned to still photography, while the later version is missing some features for stills in favour of video.

To give you an idea of the focal range of the SX60/70 here are a few photos.
21mm 100mm300mm 550mm1100mm 1365mm

While the focal range is massive, the sensor is so small that it will be severely challenged in anything but the best conditions, such as were present in these samples.

The next size up is the 1" sensor: found in the Canon PowerShot G#X series cameras. To get the wides possible focal range, you would be looking at the G3X, which has a focal range equivalent to 24-600mm on a full-frame camera. While the sensor is much bigger and will render cleaner images the focal range must be reduced. One drawback of this is the lack of a built-in viewfinder, which is necessary for stability when shooting at long focal lengths. Placing the camera to one's face and looking through the viewfinder, while holding the camera with both hands gives three points of stability (like a tripod) and will result in a much lower rate of spoiled images from camera movement. See the following video to demonstrate:

You can purchase an add-one electronic viewfinder for the G3X, but it is clunky, fragile and undermines the cameras weather resistance. Frankly, if you want to go for a 1" Bridge camera, the finest one available is the brilliant Sony RX-10MkIV. It has a basic range equivalent to 24-600mm, but has an image boost system that will render good images up to 1200mm. I sold my G3X in favour of that and never looked back.

For a couple of images I took with this unit:
24mm 500mm600mm 1200mm (boost mode)

See the following review, that is typical of most reactions. It MIGHT be within your budget and if so, could well be the best all-round unit if you don't want to go for a MILC system.

While I am a very loyal Canon shooter, this is one niche product that, in the interests of full disclosure, I would be remiss in not addressing. Again, I recommend Canon MILC R-series cameras with RF lenses if you intend to study and expand your photography. No fixed lens cameras offer that capability for expansion.

Re: Best camera for beginners

AMP — Mon, 08 May 2023 23:15:21 GMT

@Tronhard: Thanks for the info, needed that. I'll have a look at the videos you sent and get back if I have further questions. But, in general, what's your take on compact cameras (no lenses) for beginners? Are they worth it or is it better to go with the interchangeable lens gears you initially suggested (EOS R10 or EOS R8)?

Re: Best camera for beginners

Tronhard — Tue, 09 May 2023 00:03:40 GMT

In general, I think the MILC camera will offer more flexibility and ability to change or expand. With any compact fixed lens camera, once you have purchased it, there is no flexibility or potential to expand the lenses to cover different types of photography or take advantage of new gear developments.

I have quite a bit of gear and it's all interchangeable lens-based units apart from a couple of specialist units: i.e. tough cameras for underwater work. If you are serious about developing your abilities you will likely want different lenses for different purposes. Furthermore, MILC units offer the biggest sensors: either of the APS-C or Full Frame units I suggested, which tend to suffer from noise less and allow images to be viewed or printed to much higher resolution.

Generally, Canon cameras are the easiest to learn with, as they have very elegant and easy to follow menus, and there are lots of tutorials out there to assist. The Sony menu system is not as easy to navigate, although once I set up the camera I rarely have to visit it, but I have 40+ years of experience. I got a 3rd party book on the Sony to assist me with the features and it was a good investment, as that revealed the Clear Image Zoom feature that took the focal length to 1200mm Equivalent, but was buried in the Sony manual.

Re: Best camera for beginners

AMP — Tue, 09 May 2023 16:37:18 GMT

@Tronhard: Thanks again! I appreciate you sharing takes on compact vs IL cameras. Will definitely keep those in mind. One final question: I assume the MILCs are what folks commonly refer to as DSLRs? But, in that case, what exactly are mirrorless cameras?

Re: Best camera for beginners

Tronhard — Tue, 09 May 2023 18:48:28 GMT

A DSLR is a Digital Single Lens Reflex camera. Essentially, it is the same mechanism as the Single lens reflex cameras that were most popular in the latter half of the last century, except that they use a digital sensor instead of film. That film'/sensor sits behind a shutter and in front of that a mirror. Light comes into the camera via the lens which has an aperture (AKA Iris) that controls the volume of light passing through it. Light bounces off the mirror that directs it into a pentaprism to the viewfinder. The photographer sets up the image, focusing and deciding on the exposure using the image in the viewfinder as a reference. Normally, the shutter is fully open to allow the maximum light to go to viewfinder to make focusing and composition easier. When ready, they press the shutter button and the following things happen.
1. The mirror flips up to let light continue to the film or sensor - the viewfinder is then blocked.
2. The aperture in the lens is set to the predetermined desired value (opening or closing)
3. The shutter opens for the desired period exposing the film/sensor to the light from the subject.
4 When done, the whole process is reversed.

A Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera does away with the mirror and pentaprism, replacing them with an electronic viewfinder (essentially a tiny tv) that reads the information directly off the sensor. So, when one wants to take a photo the process is simplified because there is no mechanical mirror mechanism to flip up or down. Furthermore, because the image is read off the sensor, the viewfinder displays exactly what will be recorded - i.e. it will show what is in focus as well as how bright it is - depending upon the set aperture.

This makes the camera smaller and lighter, and allows for more accurate gauging of what an image will look like before it is taken. Modern MILC cameras can have advanced features like In-Body-Image-Stabilization: where the sensor is vibrated at very high speeds to compensate for the negative impacts of camera movement. This is very advantageous when using a slow shutter speed, and/or very long focal length lenses.

The current crop of compact cameras (e.g. PowerShots) use the same technology as MILCs, except they cannot swap lenses in and out.

Re: Best camera for beginners

AMP — Tue, 09 May 2023 19:47:58 GMT

@Tronhard: Got it! Got it! Got it! Thanks for the explanations. That's all the questions for now.

Re: Best camera for beginners

krahe — Tue, 09 May 2023 20:00:47 GMT

For me, the feature that pushed me from considering a DSLR like the SL3 or the T8i to a mirrorless is the fact that a mirrorless uses the same auto-focus mechanism regardless of how you're shooting a photo. A DSLR uses one auto-focus mechanism when shooting with the live view screen and another when shooting using the viewfinder.

Re: Best camera for beginners

Tronhard — Tue, 09 May 2023 20:13:43 GMT

There are many significant changes between the new technology, for sure. Certainly, if I was starting out today, I would go straight for mirrorless, especially if it is a long-term commitment. I moved from a considerable investment in DSLR gear to mostly mirrorless, although I keep a couple of bodies for old times sake and because I really like something about that particular model.

For many who so choose, there are lots of good DSLRs and their lenses going cheap, and if price is a more critical issue than development potential, then that path can be compelling.