topic Re: Upgrading from My EOS 60D in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Upgrading from My EOS 60D

levi41355 — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 12:59:29 GMT

I have a Canon EOS 60D. It's been great for me. most of the last 30 years, I've shot spots in my kids/grandkits school.

I have a Tamron SP 24-70mm F/2.8; A Tamron SP 70-200mm f/2.8; and a Tamron 45mm 1.8 lenses. These have served me well. And they are not that old. I'm now shooting indoor volleyball and basketball. As we all know, they can be pretty dark. I think my problem is not the lenses, but the camera. I"m looking for advice on updating my camera. My 45mm 1.8 lets enough light in, but my autofocus never gets there in time.

Re: updating my camera body

Tronhard — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 00:06:11 GMT

Hi and welcome to the forum

As always it is very helpful to get some idea of budget - the options are massive depending on what you want to invest.

Your lenses are all 3rd part EF units, so the first big question is, do you want to stick with a DSLR or go for a R-series MILC?

Without doubt the MILCs offer benefits for sport over the DSLRs, but you need to check the performance of your lenses with them, using the EF-RF adapter.

If you want to stay with the SPS-C format, the I would suggest the R7. A wise move might be to rent one (with adapter) for a period and see how the lenses perform. Note that the change will demand you study the camera's autofocus system to get the most from it.

If youvstick with DSLRs, then the 80d or 90d, or go full frame with the 5D4 or 6D2.

Re: updating my camera body

deebatman316 — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 00:23:45 GMT

First of all what is your budget for a new camera. 3rd Party lenses may or may not work on your new camera whether the native mount or adapted. I would rent a body to see if your 3rd Party lenses work correctly before buying a new camera. Then you'll know that your lenses work or don't work correctly after the fact. For new bodies you have 2 choices upgrade to Mirrorless or stick with a DSLR camera. You also have 2 sensor formats APS-C & Full Frame. APS-C (24x16) is smaller than 35mm Film. Full Frame is the same size as 35mm film (36x24) but now in the form of a digital image sensor.

Re: updating my camera body

levi41355 — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 01:25:55 GMT

I was told that the lenses I have will fit a full frame. Is that not true? I have a bit of money in the lenses. I want to keep them. For a grand dad that takes pictures of his kids, I have quite a bit on money in it. I just shoot after work. I'm not a professional. I get the best shots because I know the games well. I know where to shoot. I just need more speed on the autofocus.

Re: updating my camera body

levi41355 — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 01:29:16 GMT

a guy at work told me to go with a CANON EOS 5D Mark IV. And that would work with my lenses and would satisfy me. He's no professional, but he know some. I appreciate the information though. It's got my head thinkng.

Re: updating my camera body

levi41355 — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 01:31:01 GMT

I'll lcheck into the R7.A.

thanks.

Re: updating my camera body

levi41355 — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 01:35:27 GMT

I was hoping I could get a used camera body, that would be better, for about $1,500.

Re: updating my camera body

Tronhard — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 01:38:57 GMT

EF lenses will work on both APS-C bodies - like your 60D, and full-frame bodies. There is no reason why you can't keep them but you have to decide which platform you want to go to. You have four choices:
DSLR:
APS-C - the 80D or 90D, both are excellent bodies but the autofocus may not be miles ahead of the 60D.
Full frame: 5DIV or 6DII, both are likely better in low light than the APS-C bodies, but will not give you the same field of view as the 60D did. Objects will fill less of the frame.

MILC R-series bodies: any of these will have much better tracking and better low light performance - you can literally get them to track specific players in a game.
APS-C: the R7 would be my suggestion.
Full frame: the R8 or R6 (either MkI or MkII) these have superior low-light performance, and brilliant tracking.

Since you STILL have not advised your budget - which is rather fundamental, no-one can advise you more than this. As both Demetrius and I have said, your wisest choice if going for the R-series bodies is to trial your lenses on them - either borrow or rent the bodies.

Re: updating my camera body

Tronhard — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 01:44:26 GMT

The 5DIV was one of the units I mentioned, but it is a full-frame body and will mean that your field of view is not as tight on a subject as your 60D. The tracking on it is nowhere near as good as the R-series bodies and they also have better low light performance. Do you understand what the impact of sensor size is to what you capture?

Re: updating my camera body

Tronhard — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 02:25:41 GMT

Canon USA have a refurbished equipment on-line store. They basically work as good as new and come with a limited guarantee. I visited the site and found these two bodies, that might be of interest:
Products Comparison List - Magento B2B Edition (canon.com)

For a couple of reviews on the R6 autofocus (also for the R8 and R7), see:
(6) Canon R6 Face Detection Auto Focus for Sports Photography - YouTube'

A video on college basketball with the R6MkII and the R7:

Comparing the R6 and R7:
Canon R6 vs R7! Is Aps-c Better Than Full Frame? - YouTube

(6) College Basketball Canon R6 Mark II & R7 - YouTube

Re: updating my camera body

Tronhard — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 02:54:22 GMT

If you want a good explanation of the effective difference between FF and APS-C sensors as regards Field of View check out this video:
FULL FRAME vs APSC vs M4/3 - WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? - YouTube

You are used to shooting with an APS-C sensor on the 60D, now because of its crop factor, EFFECTIVELY the field of view you have been enjoying is EQUIVALENT to 1.6 x what is the actual focal length of the lens - so:
24-70 on your camera has a FoV of 38.4-112mm
70-200 on your camera has a FoV of 112-320mm.

On any of the FF bodies, you will appear to have less magnification, as the crop factor for a FF sensor (in the 5DIV and the R6 or R8, is 1).

Re: updating my camera body

deebatman316 — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 12:24:42 GMT

Canon has the EOS R10 on sale for $ 900 with the kit lens and $ 879 for body only. It also comes in under budget. Allowing the extra money to be spent on extra batteries, lenses and other accessories.

Re: updating my camera body

levi41355 — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 12:46:03 GMT

I don't understand all that's mentioned. But i'm studying all the information given. I saved for a while to get lenses for about $3,500. If I was younger and wealthier, I would start over on the equipment. I have just started on some rodeo photography for students (a new world for me). I'm going to just keep my Tamron lenses, and find the best camera I can get for them.

Thanks for all the info. I'm still studying through it all. I won't jump too soon.

Re: updating my camera body

levi41355 — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 12:53:49 GMT

no, I'm not real clear on the impact of sensor size.to what I capture.

Re: updating my camera body

levi41355 — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 12:58:12 GMT

I'll check it out.

Re: updating my camera body

deebatman316 — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 12:59:45 GMT

In order to get the same framing as a Full Frame camera. You would have to step back to get the same framing with an APS-C camera would.

Re: updating my camera body

levi41355 — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 13:18:40 GMT

I'm still studying this one out.

Re: updating my camera body

rs-eos — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 13:19:18 GMT

It relates to how much of your subject will fill the frame. For example, these two images are with a 50mm lens. One with a full-frame camera, the other with a crop-sensor (APS-C) camera. In both cases, the cameras were at the same exact distance from the subject (around 55 cm to the eyes).

Full frame:

Full frame with 50mm lens (55 cm away)

Crop-sensor:

APS-C with 50mm lens (55 cm away)

On the crop-sensor camera, the 50mm lens fills the frame more (narrower field-of-view) as if it was an 80mm lens on a full-frame camera. However, it's still a 50mm lens, so will still produce facial distortions as in this headshot closeup.

Another way to visualize things. Here is a comparison of a 135mm lens on both a full-frame camera and a crop-sensor camera (cameras at the same distance from the subject):

135mm full frame vs crop-sensor

Speaking only to framing (there will be other pros/cons of full-frame vs crop-sensor), a full frame camera excels at the wide angle end of things. i.e. it's much easier to get more into the frame. A crop-sensor camera excels at the telephoto end of things. i.e. it's much easier to fill the frame with distant subjects.

Re: updating my camera body

levi41355 — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 13:27:28 GMT

thanks for the explanation! That's pretty clear. But I wonder how long it would take me to get used to it?

Re: Upgrading from My EOS 60D

shadowsports — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 16:12:32 GMT

@levi41355,

We understand all this information can be a little overwhelming. Especially for someone who has been using one camera for a very long time. With the introduction of mirrorless, you now have even more choices. It still comes down to the size of the sensor and lens type. There are 2, with each having the EF (DSLR) or RF (mirrorless) mount.

We normally take the lenses you own (and plan to use) into consideration when making a recommendation. Your lenses are all intended for cameras with a full frame sensor. This offers the most versatility since its possible to use them on a camera with the smaller APS-C sensor as well. While the FOV is different (as pointed out above) the captured images retain the maximum resolution capability of the camera's sensor.

I don't believe you'll have a significant issue "getting used to" the difference. Your zoom lenses will still offer the same ability to move in or away from a subject (stationary). Using your 45mm prime, you will still need to physically step closer or back from your subject if you are too close or too far away.

Its true. the camera industry has shifted to camera's based on mirrorless sensors. Today, buying or investing in a DSLR camera means you are investing in older technology. It doesn't mean its bad, but no further development is happening there. Sort of like buying a computer from 5 yrs ago vs. a new one today. That 5 yr old model still works, but it does not perform as fast or as well as a new model. For a time, the price difference between DSLR's and mirrorless was still dramatic. Not any more. The prices for mirrorless bodies has dropped considerably and in many cases can be less expensive in comparison.

The last thing we should mention again is compatibility. Others mentioned this and its something to think about. Canon cameras work best with Canon lenses. Compatibility with 3rd party gear is not guaranteed. This is especially true of older 3rd party EF lenses (yours) when they are adapted to newer mirrorless bodies. They may work perfectly, or 99%, or 2 works and the 3rd not so well. It really depends on the brand, model and date of manufacture. If you are considering mirrorless, I also suggest you take the advice of others and test your gear before committing. Not trying to alarm you, instead we want to ensure a positive experience.