topic Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

keenanbare — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 03:58:06 GMT

I'm totally new to photography and want to get a camera that I can use mostly for bird photography and for taking pictures during duck hunting of me, my dad, the birds we harvest, pictures of that sort. I may also dabble in some short video and casual pictures with friends, but would mostly be using the camera for bird photography and taking pictures during hunting.

I just recently purchased the Canon M50 Mark II, but am thinking about returning it. I have recently read some forums that it may not work well with telephoto lenses due to it's small/fragile size and build. Also, it seems that Canon is going away from the EF-M mount and towards the RF mount. I've read some forums that have recommended the R10 and R7, and that's currently what I have my eye on. I want something that I can grow into and with.

My price range is flexible, but would say that the upper limit is $2,000 (camera and lens included). Would be willing to go a bit higher if it's worth it.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

shadowsports — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 08:16:34 GMT

Greetings ,

With your budget in mind and the type of photography you are describing, a body with an APS-C sensor might work well for you.

I just want to confirm the following. Some of the wildlife you'll be shooting will be from a blind at substantial distance? Or are you just going to be capturing memories of the hunt? I'm asking because lens recommendations might vary depending on the distance of your subjects.

These recommendations may change based on your answers. The bodys I would recommend are the R50, R10 and R7. A good starter lens for shooting wildlife on a mirrorless body is the RF100-400.

The R50 and R10 are younger siblings to the R7. They have a 24 megapixel sensors compared to the 32 megapixels of the R7. The RF100-400 is a full frame lens. Using a full frame lens on an APS-C-based camera has an effect on image perspective. The field of view is a little more narrow. This is because the the APS-C sensor is smaller than the image a full frame lens is presenting to it. This is actually a strength of using a full frame lens on an APSC sensor.

The lens above is not heavy and would be good when taking pictures of wildlife at a distance. Birds taking off or coming in for a landing on a body of water, etc. You'd likely be able to identify species easily.

It would not be a good choice if you were trying to take a picture of your group at the blind, in a boat, or standing around a campsite. For that, you would need a lens with a shorter focal length. In addition, we also need to be mindful of accessories. You're going to need a few memory cards at least one spare battery and possibly a tripod. These aren't prohibitively expensive but need to be factored in. Inevitably, you are going to need at least one lens with a shorter focal length. This will be the one you use to take group photos, a picture of a dog with a bird in its mouth and maybe a nice shot of the location, estuary, etc.

If you don't need the reach that a zoom lens offers there are alternatives, lenses with shorter focal lengths. These will still take fantastic photos but you won't get the same level of detail shooting at farther distances.

Canon sells refurbished gear in their online store. Refurbished gear comes directly from Canon and is unperceptible from brand new. It also comes with the same one-year warranty as new gear does. It can help stretch your dollar, so be sure to check out the online store as well.

I'm sure, others will have additional suggestions.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

deebatman316 — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 11:51:01 GMT

What is your budget you have to spend on a kit (body + lens) or just a body. I would look into the EOS R7, R50 or R10. With a 70-200mm or 100-400mm lens. These lenses are designed for a full frame camera. There is a 1.6x crop factor because the image sensor is smaller than 35mm film. The image in the above mentioned cameras are APS-C.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

keenanbare — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 12:48:16 GMT

Body + lens, my budget is up to $2,000 but would be willing to go a little higher.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

keenanbare — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 12:56:08 GMT

The bird photography that I mentioned would be done at substantial distance and would require a lens with a high zoom capability. The photography during hunting that I mentioned would just be for capturing moments and would not require a high zoom lens such as that with bird photography.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

deebatman316 — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 14:10:13 GMT

I would look into the EOS R10 + RF 100-400mm. This comes in under budget. So you can spend the money on extra batteries, SD Cards and other accessories. Or you can get the EOS R7 + RF 100-400mm lens. But it's over your budget.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

krahe — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 13:19:19 GMT

In the M50 group on Facebook a lot of people post photos with lenses up to 600mm focal length and I don't know that I've ever heard anyone complain about the M50 having issues with them because of its small size. Of course with a lens that big the lens itself is going to have to be supported, such as via the adapter you'll be using on the M50, but that's probably true no matter what camera it's attached to.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

ebiggs1 — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 15:06:21 GMT

"I may also dabble in some short video and casual pictures with friends, but would mostly be using the camera for bird photography and taking pictures during hunting."

As with any photography what you want to do is very likely not possible with one lens. That is the number one reason cameras have interchangeable lenses. With your stated budget you are probably in for a "settle for" combo. Meaning I can't afford what I need so I settled for this. Remember a small bird, like a duck, will be a small bird in any photo unless you are pretty close. A few feet, from the bird.

The EOS R10 + RF 100-400mm could be a partial solution but it won't be great at the longer distances and won't be useable at all inside a duck blind. Adding the Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 STM would go a long way to get close up shots and be a stellar low light performer. Is this the perfect kit? No but the stated budget determines that.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

shadowsports — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 15:33:23 GMT

@keenanbare,

Thanks for answering the above questions. As you can see, Demetrius and I both suggested similar gear. Megapixels are not everything, but the higher resolution of the R7 would offer additional detail and cropping ability. Cropping is basically when you remove an unwanted area or change the aspect of the photo. Example, dog sitting with bird in its mouth near a sign. By cropping, you can remove the sign in the edge of the photo making the dog your main subject without the distraction. Its easier to do this with higher resolution photos.

M Series. Canon is doing its best to keep this mount alive. Its on life-support. EF-M lenses cannot be adapted to Canon's other body's. You can however, adapt EF/EF-S lenses to a M Series body. Canon is not currently developing any new EF-M lenses. There are currently 8 available. The body's take nice photos. However, an R series body is a better investment from a future proof perspective.

So you've identified at least one lens. The RF100-400. A refurb is available in the Canon Store. It will save you about $80. There are no refurb bodies available in the models we discussed, so you'll have to go new there. Canon and B&H Photo Video are both good sources. They are where I buy my gear.

This might help a little.

Compare Canon R50 vs Canon R10 vs Canon R7 vs Canon R8 | B&H (bhphotovideo.com)

Body and lens combos are also available. This might be where you get the body with a shorter focal length lens for everyday shots. Please do a little reading / comparison. This will help in your decision making. Ask us questions. Everyone will be happy to help.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

Far-Out-Dude — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 02:45:28 GMT

Connected to Gimbal with 70-300mm Lens using Canon EF-M to EF/S AdapterAvian Fast FoodBottom Side so you can see the setup again with the 70-300mm lensI have the M50 Mark I and have had a Tamron* 150-600mm lens on it with no problem handheld. I am getting ready to get a Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM next month. I see no problem. I have used both handheld and more often from a Wimberley WH-200 Gimbal Tripod Head II because of back, knee, shoulder, hip and some people might argue brain problems. I have never had a problem. I normally use the Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS II USM almost always for shooting animals and have had no problems at all. Here are some sample images done with the 70-300mm mentioned above.BluebirdEnglish Barn SparrowEastern Wild Turkey

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

ebiggs1 — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 14:21:31 GMT

There is no doubt the M50 series works the reason you don't recommend it to a new buyer is the M series is a dead end. It is done as is the DSLR. It never was a serious contender It is/was a niche model.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

krahe — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 14:30:14 GMT

Yet, the M50 offers benefits that might never be repeated with an RF mount camera. (Though those benefits aren't a big factor in the present case.)

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

Far-Out-Dude — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 20:44:34 GMT

I have seen several articles in the past month saying they still have plans for the M series.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

deebatman316 — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 22:12:01 GMT

EOS M/ EF-M is a dead lineup of cameras. In fact some EF-M lenses now have an RF-S (RF Mount lens with an APS-C image circle) equivalent. Which has signaled the end of EOS M/ EF-M. Why make 2 different incompatible mirrorless APS-C camera mounts. When they can use 1 mount for both APS-C & Full Frame. This is why the EOS M line up is dead.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

krahe — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 23:39:52 GMT

I don't see much benefit to having a single mount for both APS-C and full frame. In fact, it might be a detriment. If Canon does develop a number of RF-S lenses (it's not clear that they will), the fact that they have a mount in common with a full frame camera line really won't help someone preserve their lens investment if they later move to a full frame camera (i.e. they won't be much better off than if they had invested in an M body and lenses instead). At the same time, having ready access to lenses designed for full frame cameras will relieve the pressure on Canon to develop very many RF-S lenses, potentially leaving APS-C R users without one of the biggest benefits appreciated by many M users, which is a compact system.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

deebatman316 — Fri, 31 Mar 2023 00:02:13 GMT

Using 1 mount makes more sense money wise. Why make 2 incompatible lens mounts. It makes it easy to convert to full frame. The RF Mount is the future. EF-M is dead and probably only has a few years left to sellout of remaining stock. No manufacturer announces that there killing off a product line. They discontinue the product line and expect consumers to move to the new product line. Unlike EF-M you will have to start from scratch with lenses when moving to full frame. EOS M was/ is a niche market for compact cameras. Only 8 lenses were released from Canon. The only remaining M series camera is the M50 Mark II. So it doesn't surprise me that Canon has released 3 APS-C RF Mount cameras to replace the EF-M Mount.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

krahe — Fri, 31 Mar 2023 02:35:26 GMT

Using 1 mount for both APS-C and full frame only makes it easy to convert to full frame if you avoid purchasing any APS-C (i.e. RF-S) lenses. If you do purchase APS-C lenses, you'll pretty much have to start from scratch with lenses when/if you move to a full frame, whether your current lenses are EF-S, EF-M or RF-S.

I only got into ILCs a little less than a year ago. Knowing what I know now if I were to come into the market at the present time, I would buy the M50 Mark II all over again.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

deebatman316 — Fri, 31 Mar 2023 10:27:49 GMT

Financially it makes more sense for a company to use 1 mount. Why make 2 mounts when 1 works. They also save money. They don't have to produce 2 of the same lenses for different mounts. They don't have factor in the mounts having different electronic communication. Then having to figure what features works with that mount. It also cuts down on confusion. When a company uses 1 mount. The EOS M series doesn't have all of the features that everyone needs. Nor does it have the latest advancements in technology. Such as focus breathing compensation. Or using Intermittent Flash Firing for AF Assist from a speedlite. EOS M lacks those features due to having older hardware. Hence why APS-C RF Mount cameras and lenses are here.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

krahe — Fri, 31 Mar 2023 12:31:59 GMT

I agree that a single mount makes more sense for Canon. I just don't think it's settled that it makes more sense for the consumer. Also, a lot of the more advanced features available with the RF mount that aren't available with EF-M are of more interest to professional/full frame users than people like me buying into the low end of the market.

Re: Need recommendations for beginner camera and lens for bird photography

rs-eos — Fri, 31 Mar 2023 13:49:45 GMT

An EOS M50 with 15-45mm lens is $699. Size of 4.6 x 3.5 x 2.2 in. And weighs 13.7 oz.

An EOS R50 with 18-45mm lens is $799. Size of 4.6 x 3.4 x 2.7 in. And weighs 13.2 oz.

Other specs average out to be pretty much the same; perhaps with an edge going to the R50. Thus, these are effectively the same camera and there's no reason to have two different product lines for it.