topic Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

Mitch_P — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 23:22:51 GMT

I am upgrading to an RF 100-500mm L, so it won't be an issue for me moving forward. But I thought I might warn others that some versions of this lens have incompatibilities with the newer R bodies. If you're shooting in Servo, the AF will "pulse" when shooting something near the MFD. FWIW, this issue is also discussed on some YouTube posts. Please don't blame the victim 😉

As far as I can conjecture, Sigma won't address this problem in fear of Canon coming after them, and Canon won't update their firmware to suit some other manufacturers lens. That leaves the user in the lurch.

Another TOTAL incompatibility is the Irix 11mm ultra wide MF lens. This lens will freeze the R6 Mark II until you remove the battery. This body/lens combo does not work AT ALL. I'm guessing it's the same with the entire Irix lineup, but I haven't tried them all.

I think they all worked on the original R6? Pretty sure these lenses are also fine on the original R. AFAIK, it's only the newer R bodies.

If Canon reads these posts, my advice would be to get this sorted out or let Sigma know it's OK to fix it. I've been talking my friend in to upgrading from his T7i, but I have to take back the recommendation because he uses a Sigma 150-600mm C. He can't afford my $2500 fix of upgrading to the RF 100-500mm L. Without some kind of solution, you've lost a sale of a new camera body, which could have led to a lens sale in the future. As it is, I'd recommend a Sony and MC-11 converter to him as a 100% working setup.

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

deebatman316 — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 23:40:57 GMT

Have you tried updating the firmware on the lens or checked if one was available before you start pointing the finger. The 3rd Party manufacturer has claimed compatibility with the Canon EF Mount. The 3rd Party manufacturer claimed compatibility with the RF Mount via a mount adapter. Canon never said that the 3rd Party's equipment was compatible with the EF Mount. Nor being adapted to use on RF Mount cameras via a mount adapter. They've only claimed compatibility with their own EF, EF-S, TS-E and MP-E lenses.

-Demetrius

Current Gear: EOS 5D Mark IV, EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III USM, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II USM, EF 50 F/1.8 STM, EF 85mm F/1.8 USM, EF 70-200mm F/2.8L IS III USM, 470EX-AI & 600EX II-RT

Retired Gear: EOS 40D & Sigma 17-50mm F/2.8 EX DC OS HSM

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

shadowsports — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 03:05:28 GMT

Agree with Demetrius. There are several YouTube videos out there with photographers (mostly wildlife) discussing the AF pulsing when the Sigma 150~600c is mounted to the R7 and R62. I own this lens. Sigma did release some firmware, but nothing since 2020. v2.03 is the latest. None address a MILC body.

Ver.2.03

2020.08.20

It has optimized the exposure during viewfinder shooting when used in combination with the EOS 90D and the EOS-1D X Mark III.
It has fixed a rarely-occurring communication problem during Live View shooting when mounted on the EOS-1D X Mark III.

Ver.2.02

2019.11.21

The firmware will optimize the operation of Mode2 in Optical Stabilizer when used in combination with the SIGMA MOUNT CONVERTER MC-21 EF-L.

Ver.2.01

2019.03.14

It has improved the stability of the image in the viewfinder, making it easier to confirm composition, thanks to the updated control algorithm of the Optical Stabilizer.

For the time being, the most consistent and reliable results are achieved using adapted Canon glass.

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

Mitch_P — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 03:09:13 GMT

Who's pointing any fingers? This is a fact and observed by other people. I am merely giving someone a heads up before they make a very expensive mistake. But then again, I knew someone would blame the victim 😉

I updated firmware both the lens and body, in fact one of the first things I did.

Here's the bottom line - based on my and others experience, I won't recommend a newer R series camera to anyone using a 3rd party lens. You would rather just have people get screwed and write off the brand? That's not good for Canon. I admire your brand loyalty, but I have as much loyalty for a manufacturer as they have for me.

And I never claimed they were officially compatible, but I did assumed it with a "EF to R Adapter". Pretty sure other people will assume it as well. Better to let them know upfront, with people being people and all...

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

deebatman316 — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 03:37:18 GMT

I'm not loyal to any brand. I've shot both Nikon DX (APS-C) and Canon (EF-S) APS-C and (EF) Full Frame. I've come across incompatibles between older 3rd party EF lenses on newer EF Mount bodies. So this isn't about different lens mounts. So you can't just assume that your older 3rd party EF lenses will work correctly on a new EF Mount body. I came across an incompatibility between my old Sigma 17-50mm F/2.8 EX DC OS HSM lens with a Canon 90D. The lens worked correctly on my old Canon 40D. But it won't work correctly on the 90D.

-Demetrius

Current Gear: EOS 5D Mark IV, EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III USM, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II USM, EF 50 F/1.8 STM, EF 85mm F/1.8 USM, EF 70-200mm F/2.8L IS III USM, 470EX-AI & 600EX II-RT

Retired Gear: EOS 40D & Sigma 17-50mm F/2.8 EX DC OS HSM

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

Mitch_P — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 03:49:24 GMT

Yes, if you've been shooting for a while we've all experienced that. But I've never had every third party lens crap out at the same time. Also, these lenses were working on earlier R series bodies.

Now I won't be affected by it, I'm getting a new Canon RF telephoto lens. I already have an EF 400mm f5.6 and a RF 100-400mm. Both work flawlessly. The R6 Mark II is the best camera I've owned for "getting the shot". This after coming from a Nikon D850. I will probably get the R5 Mark II when it comes out. The AF is just that good.

All I'm doing here is trying to warn others, is that OK? The Sigma is a massively popular lens, and the R6 Mark II is the envy of most in that demographic. Is a warning not appropriate?

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

Mitch_P — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 03:53:37 GMT

Hmm... It sounds like you're agreeing with me instead.

My OP is directed at you: someone who owns that Sigma 150-600mm lens. Just be careful upgrading to the newest bodies.

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

deebatman316 — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 04:10:35 GMT

This is also not Canon's first time either. Old film era 3rd party EF lenses used to draw too much power while stopping down the aperture. This would cause Canon's new digital line of cameras and last 2 or 3 EOS 35mm AF cameras to throw a fault code. It is fine to warn people. Just watchout for the forum moderators. They can remove posts from the form.

-Demetrius

Current Gear: EOS 5D Mark IV, EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III USM, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II USM, EF 50 F/1.8 STM, EF 85mm F/1.8 USM, EF 70-200mm F/2.8L IS III USM, 470EX-AI & 600EX II-RT

Retired Gear: EOS 40D & Sigma 17-50mm F/2.8 EX DC OS HSM

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

shadowsports — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 04:46:42 GMT

Greetings,

I'm not here to take sides. Its not about that. Nothing wrong with you sharing an experience. I'm sure it will help others. I've already moved to MILC and RF. I've tested the 2 Sigma lens I own and both work in stills mode. Cinema mode also works, but AF is much slower. I'm in the same boat. I'm waiting to replace the 150~600c with a RF equivalent. 100~500L or the 200~500 with 1.4x TC if it makes it from patent to something for sale. Just being patient.

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

Iphosia — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 07:14:37 GMT

I have the exact issue with the Irix 15mm and I am honnestly quite pissed. All the more since it seems to be a problem that doesn't occur with other RF mount cameras. I do hope Canon will release a fix... of course, they have no reason to do so... but still.

In the meantime, I will leave my 15mm mounted on the 5D Mark 3...

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

Mitch_P — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 07:58:34 GMT

Yep, I know the feeling. What I did was used an old 5D DSLR and set the aperture to f8. Then remove the lens while the camera is still on. That will leave the lens at the aperture you set. Then I used a "dumb" adapter that separates the Irix from the Canon R series completely. You're manually focusing anyway, so all you lose is the aperture. I wish Irix included a manual aperture ring on their lenses. BTW, I picked up an old Sony A7R2 and use this lens with an adapter now. Mostly sunsets and landscapes. The aperture works perfectly.

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

shadowsports — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 11:30:26 GMT

Just a general comment for this thread.

A great deal more understanding and knowledge has come to light this year, and since this thread was started. The Sigma 150-600c works fine with Canon R bodies if used correctly and with appropriate settings.

The pulsing issue was a combination of several factors and once people understood the behavior, it was all but eliminated. Most of the use cases were debunked and attributed to incorrect use or settings. No camera / lens combination will perform ideally in every shooting situation. If used correctly, the issues being experienced by many wildlife photographers earlier this year were caused by user error.

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

Iphosia — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 11:38:52 GMT

Yes, a manual aperture ring would fix it. But it is probably just a line of coding that blocks it.

It is a pity as the 15mm is a lense I like a lot and am not ready to leave behind (but at the same time, I don't see any advantage to replace it).

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

Waddizzle — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 15:22:11 GMT

@Iphosia wrote:
I have the exact issue with the Irix 15mm and I am honnestly quite pissed. All the more since it seems to be a problem that doesn't occur with other RF mount cameras. I do hope Canon will release a fix... of course, they have no reason to do so... but still.

In the meantime, I will leave my 15mm mounted on the 5D Mark 3...

This is an older thread that discusses issues a user was having with a super telephoto lens made by a different manufacturer. You are experiencing issues with an ultra-wide angle lens made by a different third party lens manufacturer. Please start a new thread.

The issues experienced by the gentleman on YouTube were caused by 100% user error. If you take the time to review his older videos you will see this “pulling” is not a new issue for him. He was experiencing the same issue with every Canon camera he owned.

I do not fault him too much because he is an admitted amateur photographer. His issues were directly related to not knowing the limitations of how his gear worked. His understanding of MFD and IS were fundamentally flawed.

Not every lens made is fully compatible with Canon bodies that use Dual Pixel AF image sensors when the certain features are enabled. “Not every lens” includes many Canon EF mount lenses.

These older Canon lens designs for the EF mount were not compatible with advanced focusing features such as Eye AF and IBIS. I suspect that you are experiencing similar issues with your Irix branded lens.

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

Mitch_P — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 18:36:55 GMT

Interesting. I moved on to the wonderful RF 100-500 L and have not kept up with this issue. Just out of curiosity, what was my "user error"? Also, the people complaining were experienced photographers, not beginners. I'm glad there's a solution now, but I absolutely don't regret upgrading 🙂 I had also mentioned the Irix issue and somebody must have found it in a search.

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

Waddizzle — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 22:24:32 GMT

@Mitch_P wrote:
Interesting. I moved on to the wonderful RF 100-500 L and have not kept up with this issue. Just out of curiosity, what was my "user error"? Also, the people complaining were experienced photographers, not beginners. I'm glad there's a solution now, but I absolutely don't regret upgrading 🙂 I had also mentioned the Irix issue and somebody must have found it in a search.

The YouTube videos that I watched were created by an amateur wildlife photographer. Over the years he has made several videos that are supposedly documenting some “pulsing” bug he had discovered, which was associated with Canon camera bodies beginning with his 40D.

This content creator felt he had discovered a bug that thousands and thousands and thousands of other users had never experienced. His discoveries were based on testing methods that were flawed due to a fundamental lack of understanding of how camera gear works.

—————————————————————-

As you noted in your original post, the pulsing would occur at or near the MFD of the lens. This was the same issue that was demonstrated in the videos that I had seen. The content creator did not know or understand that the MFD specification for consumer grade zoom lenses is not constant across the entire zoom range. Typically, the MFD specification is only valid at the minimum zoom setting. As you increase the zoom setting, the MFD increases by some amount that manufacturers almost never tell you about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parfocal_lens

That is how a non-parfocal lens works. A parfocal lens maintains focus as focal length is changed. When it comes to MFD, this means that MFD will change as the focal length is changed. The content creator did not understand that MFD increases as you increase focal length.

In other words, he was trying to focus on subjects that inside the MFD specification for the lens.

—————————————————————-

The content creator I watched experienced the pulsing issues with several different cameras. He blamed the Canon camera bodies, although he would admit that the issue could be related to something that he was not aware of. He was unaware of something every EXPERIENCED photographer is aware of. You should turn off Image Stabiization when you mount your rig on a tripod. The following article has a 2015 release date. It describes how a typical IS system works.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/tips-and-solutions/image-stabilization-when-to-use-it-and-when-to-turn-it-off

When you do not disable a IS when using a tripod, a feedback loop is created. One common result is the autofocus system will being to oscillate. The article describes in detail the basics of how a typical Image Stabilization works.

Most of the older designs such as those used by Sigma work by “hunting” for camera movement. This achieved by slightly and slowly defocusing the image and then reacquiring a focus lock. When the camera is perfectly stationary, this lends the appearance that the image is going in and out of focus.

His older 40D camera body would exhibit this behavior rather slowly. The image would drift in and out of focus in just under a second. Newer camera bodies feaure newer, faster AF systems. This drifting in and out of focus occurs faster. In the most recent generations of camera bodies, this phenomenon manifests itself has high speed focus pulsing.

—————————————————————-

This is pretty basic stuff that experienced photographers should be fully aware of. Let me stop and draw the line here. There is no need to describe additional basic mistakes he was making. I’ll summarize by simply saying that his scientific methods are highly flawed.

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

shadowsports — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 23:38:03 GMT

@Waddizzle,

Well said.

And @Mitch_P,

My reply was not directed at you, it was just a general reply to the thread outlining what was discovered over the last 6 - 7 months.

I'm glad you like your RF100-500. This became one of my favorite lenses right after it's purchase. Shooting with it is very satisfying, and it's a lens I wouldn't want to be without.

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

Mitch_P — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 02:33:55 GMT

I hope it's ok to post a YouTube link here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7TEu1Tgq5I

Duade Paton is NOT an inexperienced photographer. Like I said, I haven't been keeping up on this issue, but it's was (is?) real thing. I can confirm the Irix issue is still an issue. He's using an R7 in this video but the R6 MkII has the exact same symptoms, which he confirms in a different video. If it's fixed, I doubt it was "user error". But even if it is, that's another reason to avoid this body/lens combination.

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

Waddizzle — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 11:33:48 GMT

@Mitch_P wrote:
I hope it's ok to post a YouTube link here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7TEu1Tgq5I

Duade Paton is NOT an inexperienced photographer. Like I said, I haven't been keeping up on this issue, but it's was (is?) real thing. I can confirm the Irix issue is still an issue. He's using an R7 in this video but the R6 MkII has the exact same symptoms, which he confirms in a different video. If it's fixed, I doubt it was "user error". But even if it is, that's another reason to avoid this body/lens combination.

I never said that he was inexperienced. I said he doesn’t know what he is talking about. Look at his camera settings on the tripod mounted camera. He has Optical Stabilization enabled.

Did you look at the link I posted above on this topic? He has been making these fundamental mistakes and errors for many years. His videos are textbook examples of bad science. I feel embarrassed for him.

[EDIT] The issues with using the EF mount Irix lenses on adapter RF mount bodes are problems for Irix to fox, not Canon. Other brands do not suffer from these issues.

Have a nice day!

Re: R6 Mark II and Sigma 150-600mm C incompatibility

Iphosia — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 11:51:40 GMT

The Irix is a fixed focal manual lens. So there is nothing to manage here besides the aperture. And it is working on the R6.

I don't care about AF in any case, since it is plain useless on a lens used in hyperfocal mode like a 15mm.

It is just a pity if canon starts to throw away the retro compatibility like this. The only reason I stay with canon is the possibility to use my lenses. If I have to change them, I can as well change brand.