topic Re: Image quality and focus issues in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

EOS R5 Image quality and focus issues

thirdherd — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 13:47:27 GMT

I have results from my R5 that are disappointing at best. I've tried changing the settings using pros advice but still not as sharp as I'd expect. I'm using an EF 100-400 lens for BIF and have sent the lens to Canon for alignment, still no improvement. I bought the camera new and so far as I know it has never been damaged. IF, I get extremely close to my subject the image is a lot sharper.

I shoot wildlife and BIF using back button AF. Raw files and shutter release (mechanical). I use a variety of focus point settings and of course servo mode. I'm to the point I'm going to send it back to canon unless I find a miricle cure. I'm at 1.7 firmware as well. Any suggestions or similar complaints?

Re: Image quality and focus issues

deebatman316 — Sat, 14 Jan 2023 21:50:39 GMT

Mirrorless cameras track at all times even if you're not using certain focus points unlike a DSLR camera. What mount adapter are you using Canon or a 3rd party. Which version of the EF 100-400mm the original or the Mark II version. Can you please post some picture with the metadata intact in the forum. What settings are you using have you tried One Shot AF on a static subject just as a test instead of Servo AF. What is your shutter speed could you be seeing camera shake. Make sure IS is turned on unless on a tripod.

-Demetrius

Current Gear: 5D Mark IV, EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III USM, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II USM, EF 50 F/1.8 STM, EF 85mm F/1.8 USM, EF 70-200mm F/2.8L IS III USM, 430EX III-RT, 470EX-AI & 600EX II-RT

Retired Gear: EOS 40D, Sigma 17-50mm F/2.8 EX DC OS HSM & EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

Re: Image quality and focus issues

Peter — Sat, 14 Jan 2023 23:13:05 GMT

Not the first time I hear about R5 and a focus issue https://community.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS-DSLR-Mirrorless-Cameras/loss-of-sharpness-100-400-using-R5-and-adapter/td-p/323253

There are more user reports at Dpreview.

I can't remember I have seen any about R6. My R6 has no focus issues.

Re: Image quality and focus issues

Waddizzle — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 13:05:36 GMT

“IF, I get extremely close to my subject the image is a lot sharper.”

If you are a long distance from your subject, then the camera could experience difficulty locking focus on your subject and not something else within the field of view. It goes without saying that tight cropping does not always produce great images.

Also, it has been my experience with that lens using UV or CPL filters can have a significantly negative impact on the autofocusing. If you feel that you need some sort of protective on your lens, then I recommend only using high quality Clear filters.

I use Clear filters to keep my front lens element clean, not for protection against impacts. There tends to be lots of dust, pollen, and other small airborne particles in the wild.

Re: Image quality and focus issues

ebiggs1 — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 15:42:27 GMT

" I'm at 1.7 firmware as well. "

It's not the FW. It is not a misaligned lens if Canon checked it out. It could be poor filters or even good filters if they interfere with the lens. Remove any filter and stop using them. Other than that keep in mind the lens doesn't know when it is in focus or not. The camera tells it. Further you tell the camera how this is to be done. I suspect that is the real issue.

"I get extremely close to my subject the image is a lot sharper."

All lenses lose resolution as distance increases. That's why closer subjects appear sharper.

" I've tried changing the settings using pros advice ..."

Well, IME, this can be both good and bad. "There are more user reports at Dpreview." I am not a review reader. You can't trust them. They can be totally wrong or give incorrect info or be downright lies. You just can't trust the reviewer to be what they claim they are. Some guys make career out of reading reviews on the ole inner web. They must spend hours doing so. Then they reply to posts like this with what they have read without any real experience of their own to back it up with. How do you tell the difference? I don't know but don't put too much stock in too many reviews.

"...have you tried One Shot AF on a static subject just as a test ..."

This is a good idea if nothing more to prove to yourself that there isn't anything wrong with your camera/lens. Easy to set up. Try different distances, too. So, lets reset the camera to default setting. Menu>tools>clear all settings and clear all custom settings. You always have to start at the known beginning. Set the camera to P mode. Use Raw always never jpg. Set ISO around 200. Use One shot and just the center focus point. Never Ai-servo or any other auto focus mode. Use a good tripod, a good one not a cheapo. The other settings don't matter because you will u/l to your computer into DPP4. If you don't already have it you can d/l it for free from Canon. Do the shots, u/l to DPP4 and examine them. You can/should apply Canon lens correction and any other tweaks you like.

How do they look?

Re: Image quality and focus issues

amfoto1 — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 18:08:05 GMT

Please get back to us with an example image.

Also please answer the questions:

Which version of EF 100-400mm are you using?
What brand adapter are you using?
Is there a "protection" filter on the lens?
Have you tested the lens and camera with stationary subjects?
How are you determining the "images are soft"? Are you over-enlarging them on your computer screen?
Have you cleaned the camera sensor? A dirty sensor can make for "soft" images.

The R5 has a very sophisticated AF system that's quite different from DSLRs and there's a bit of a learning curve with those newer AF systems. BIF are one of the most difficult subjects. There are a lot of videos on YouTube showing how people are setting up their R5, R6, R7 and R3 (all of which are similar) for wildlife and birds. Many people set up the AF On button for one form of back button focusing and the * button (AE Lock) for another such as animal eye detection, so that they can use the first to get the focus close, then switch to the 2nd to really lock onto the subject.

Are we getting anywhere with these questions and suggestions?

***********

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7DII (x2), 7D(x2), EOS M5, some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR

Re: Image quality and focus issues

thirdherd — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 20:00:45 GMT

I'm using the R5 with a Canon 100-400 EF IS II USM, the adapter is Canon as well. There is a Hoya UV filter on the lens. The static test is kind of inconclusive given that it seems to focus better at shorter distances. I have also used a Canon 70-300 lens with about the same issues. I am more than open to the idea that my own personal proficiency may well factor in and I am also aware that over crop will affect image quality.

Re: Image quality and focus issues

Waddizzle — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 14:16:45 GMT

Stop using the UV filters. You do not need them. There is already a UV filter layer built into every digital image sensor assembly.

If you feel that you need a “protective filter”, then only use a high quality CLEAR filter. I recommend the B+W Nano Clear filters.

Re: Image quality and focus issues

ebiggs1 — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:06:23 GMT

"Stop using the UV filters. You do not need them"

I repeat this. Stop using any filter. The ef 100-400mm does not like them.

Re: Image quality and focus issues

ebiggs1 — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:17:35 GMT

Dennis,

I checked out your samples. It looks like you used ISO 4000 on some. That will enter a lot of grain in the photo and you might conclude that is the lens not being sharp. It is not. It is the granin factor. Also it looks like you are doing an extreme crop to the images. You can't do that and expect top IQ. There are limits to how much you can get by with. You have exceeded them. The short answer is get closer or a longer FL lens like a 600mm. Either one means you don't need to crop as much. One is free the other is not! I hope you are using Raw and you have DPP4. Both of these are necessary to anyone that wants top IQ pictures.

Re: Image quality and focus issues

ebiggs1 — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:26:23 GMT

"The static test is kind of inconclusive given that it seems to focus better at shorter distances."

No its not. It is very informative. It is an excellent learning tool. Do the test. However lets add another aspect to it. Shoot at several distances but now change the ISO to 4000 from say 200. Edit the test shots in DPP4 and crop each to 100% which is about, if not less, than what you are doing. You have a couple guys here that have decades of photographic experience that recommend doing that test. Think of it as a school lesson. The more you experiment with and use your gear the more better you will become at using your gear. Remember to follow my instructions exactly.

You also have one of the most challenging AF circumstances. A subject with a bunch of limbs and twigs.

Re: Image quality and focus issues

deebatman316 — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:31:48 GMT

I would retest the lens with the any type of screw on filters REMOVED. As what @Waddizzle pointed out the sensor stack already has a UV Filter. Also @ebiggs1 pointed out that Canon's EF 100-400mm lens lineup don't focus well with filters attached. Filters are unnecessary for this lens. Unless you want to use a clear protective filter as @Waddizzle pointed out.

-Demetrius

Current Gear: EOS 5D Mark IV, EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III USM, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II USM, EF 50 F/1.8 STM, EF 85mm F/1.8 USM, EF 70-200mm F/2.8L IS III USM, 430EX III-RT, 470EX-AI & 600EX II-RT

Retired Gear: EOS 40D, Sigma 17-50mm F/2.8 EX DC OS HSM & EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

Re: Image quality and focus issues

thirdherd — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 19:46:10 GMT

Thank you for the advice. I have removed the filter from the lens. I am going to send the R5 to Canon service as a precaution. It's 89 bucks for the service and I think that's reasonable after that I have no one to blame but myself. Thanks again

Re: Image quality and focus issues

thirdherd — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 19:47:28 GMT

Thanks for your comments. I have removed the filter and am looking fwd to testing it.

Re: Image quality and focus issues

thirdherd — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 19:48:56 GMT

I guess it's unanimous. I removed the filter and will keep trying. Thanks again to you and everyone who chimed in.

Re: Image quality and focus issues

amfoto1 — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 20:45:54 GMT

FYI: Hoya makes a bunch of different grades of filters ranging from premium quality to cheap junk. They also change the names of their different filter lines every so often, making it harder to tell which is which... but price is usually a pretty good indicator. Right now B&H Photo is showing four different Hoya UV filters in 77mm size required for EF 100-400mm lenses.

Among those, the "77mm Hoya HD3 UV" is the most expensive at $133 and a recognized premium grade that will do little harm to images. At the other extreme is a $21 "77mm Hoya HMC UV" that would be questionable. It could be worse, though.... there are SEVEN different 77mm Hoya Circular Polarizers!

To be fair, it might not be the filter's fault... but the combination of the filter and the lens. For some reason the original Canon EF 100-400mm push/pull zoom didn't "play well" with filters. Pretty much any filter you put on it would cause it to "go soft". AFAIK that isn't the case with the Mark II version of the lens... but I can't say from experience because in the 4 or 5 years I've been using it I don't recall ever putting a filter on my EF 100-400mm II. (The lens hood protects it quite well when shooting... the lens cap protects it when it's in my backpack.)

Looking at the sample images...

...the first three look pretty darned good considering the busy background. There's wingtip blur that's probably due to the 1/800 shutter speed, possibly some depth of field, depending upon the distance. But those three look well focused on the bird's head and body, at least in the sizes shown here. The fourth image, on the other hand,m appears to be an example of the camera and lens focusing on the background instead of the subject. Honestly, for a really demanding situation like this... a fast moving subject relatively close to an extremely busy background.. 3 out of 4 ain't bad!

The last shot is quite sharp. Against a plain background the bird is much easier to focus upon. But also the bird's orientation relative top the plane of focus and possibly less wing movement seem to make for better wingtip to wingtip sharpness.

***********

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7DII (x2), 7D(x2), EOS M5, some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR

.

Re: Image quality and focus issues

thirdherd — Sun, 22 Jan 2023 17:42:47 GMT

I sent the R5 to canon for sensor realignment on Tuesday and received it back on Sunday. Not bad service at all. Canon states that my sensor meets factory guidelines but they did clean and micro adjust auto focusing. I'm relieved to find out the issues are my own. As per the many suggestions I received here I removed the filter and am now riding bareback. Today is not the best day for photos with a storm coming and no light to speak of but I shot a few birds and welcome any comments. I'll post a copy of cropped and untouched. Am looking forward to sun and Eagles. Thanks again to everyone.

Re: Image quality and focus issues

thirdherd — Sun, 22 Jan 2023 17:52:10 GMT

Incidentally, these were taken freehand using a single focus point with the 100-400 EF lens.

Re: Image quality and focus issues

BrianDavies — Mon, 23 Jan 2023 13:04:13 GMT

It's really great to hear you are up and running with such a simple fix. My friend with an EOS R just had the same issues for the same reason.

Re: EOS R5 Image quality and focus issues

thirdherd — Sun, 12 Nov 2023 13:34:23 GMT

It has been awhile since I dealt with that issue but looking back I have to accept much of the responsibility. I know now I was asking the camera to do too much. I've since ponied another 2800 bucks for a 500mm RF lens and it has made a big difference. The R5 takes exceptional images IF you do your part, and I wasn't. I confess that prior to the R5 I used the Nikon D500 and the Canon 7D II and it seemed all I had to do with both of them was point in the general direction and somehow they got the shot. An exaggeration for sure, but it was different. Of course they lack the resolution of the R5. I continue to work with the R5 and I have gotten much better especially with RF lens and a more thoughtful approach to my settings. As Mr Biggs said, practice is the cure.